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| President Aquino meets French president Francois Hollande in Paris. Photo taken Mr. Christian Hartmann c/o Reuters. |
France-Philippines Defense Cooperation Agreement (DCA)
The 2 countries already have a previous DCA and the one signed in France this week updates and further strengthen this defense agreement. This paves the way for the the French government to assist the modernization program of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP), and for allowing French companies to supply the Philippines with weapons platforms, systems, and defense-related goods and services. This also allows the Philippines to tap French assistance in other defense-related issues like training and education, warship visits and military aircraft stop-overs, and others.
Previously, the Department of National Defense (DND) indicated that a DCA is important in paving the way for defense acquisitions with certain companies and governments where the supplier is based. Such examples of previous DCA signed by the Philippine with other countries are those with Canada, South Korea, Indonesia, and the United States. This paved the way for the AFP and DND to acquire military assets from the said countries, with the Bell 412 CUH and VIP helicopters from Bell Textron Canada, FA-50 Fighting Eagle jets from Korea Aerospace Industries, and Strategic Sealift Vessels from PT PAL of Indonesia.
What the French are (and possibly) offering:
Current defense acquisitions and awards made by the DND and AFP include the C-295 medium lift tactical transport aircraft from Airbus Military, based in France. Aside from Airbus Military, French or part-French companies like MBDA Systems, Thales Group, STX France, Dassault Aviation, Airbus Helicopters (formerly Eurocopter), Nexter Group, and DCNS have shown interest, are offering, or are competing for contracts to supply various defense systems to the AFP.
Airbus Military, aside from its offer to supply the Philippine Air Force's (PAF) requirement for Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft (LRPA), has reportedly offered "a newly designed aircraft for disaster management", which can be provided by the French government through a possible Official Government Assistance loan to the Philippine government. MaxDefense sources, and analysis of previous plans of the AFP points to an offer for 2 units of the Airbus A400M Atlas transport aircraft, which can be considered as a dual-use asset for combat support and humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) operations. MaxDefense previously tackled the need to more dual-use military assets for this requirement in a previous MaxDefense entry. Airbus has also recently won to supply the PAF with medium tactical transports with its C-295 aircraft.
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| Airbus was reportedly offering the A400M Atlas to the Philippines through the French government assistance. |
STX France is one of the shipbuilders qualified to bid to construct the Philippine Navy's (PN) 2 new light frigates. Aside from that, STX France and other French shipbuilders like DCNS are offering or preparing for a possible tender for the long awaited Offshore Patrol Vessel requirement and other combat and support vessels for the Philippine Navy.
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| DCNS and other French shipbuilders are interested in upcoming projects for the Philippine Navy. Photo above shows DCNS' Gowind-class Offshore Patrol Vessel design. |
MBDA Systems are currently offering assorted missile systems to the Philippine Navy for their upcoming and current naval and air assets, the Philippine Air Force, and to the Philippine Army (PA) for air defense systems. According to MaxDefense's PN sources, MBDA has a strong chance of getting some or all the missile system requirements for the upcoming new frigates. MaxDefense believes that the offers include the MM40 Exocet anti-ship missile, and any of their 3 naval anti-aircraft missile systems: the Mistral short range man-portable air defense missile, the vertical launch (VL) version of the longer ranged Mica missile, and the newer Common Anti-Air Modular Missile system (CAMM).
The Mistral is also being offered to provide air defense systems for the PN's current major naval assets; and the Lightweight Multirole Missile and Sea Viper for their AW109 Power naval helicopters and the upcoming ASW helicopters. They are also offering the Exocet anti-ship missile coastal battery version and Mistral to the PA for their missile system requirements. The PAF was also being offered to use the air-launched version of the Exocet missile for its upcoming LRPA acquisition.
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| A computer generated illustration of an AgustaWestland AW159 Wildcat fitted with both the Lightweight Multirole Missile (LMM) and the Sea Viper missile. Photo taken from IHS-Jane's website. |
The Thales Group has been also actively involved in offering its defense and security products, mostly on electronics, radars, sensors and surveillance systems, command and control systems, system integration and subsystems. It is involved and actively pushing its products for several of the AFP's current and upcoming projects, including the PAF's LRPA, surveillance systems, and aircraft subsystems; PN's new frigates & SSV, and ship upgrades for its current assets, GHQ-AFP and PA's C4ISR and battlefield radars system, and many others.
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| Thales' Captas towed array sonar might be one of the products being offered to the Philippine Navy. |
Aside from new defense systems, the agreement paves the way for the French government to also possibly offer excess defense articles to the AFP. As a major military power that is experiencing some economic downhill like other European countries , it is expected that France has a lot of EDAs or systems that are about to be taken out French military service that they can offer at a lower price or as grants should the Philippines not be able to afford brand new systems.
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| A Georges Leygues-class frigate, which are to be withdrawn from French Navy service as more Aquitaine-class (FREMM) frigates come online. Used ships like this can boost the Philippine Navy's combat fleet in the face of Chinese aggression. Photo taken from Wikipedia. |
This deal definitely helps the Philippine government pursue its plans to modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines, and provide a closer defense relationship between the two republics.
Airbus A400M Atlas being offered?:
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| Comparing the 3 foremost large transport aircraft of the Western world: the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III (left), the Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules (middle), and the Airbus Military A400M Atlas (right). Photo taken from Key Publishing website. |
This can be considered as a surprise move by Airbus and the French government. If confirmed as offered through official French government loans, this could actually be a win-win situation both for the Philippines and France for several reasons. Aside from the announced reason of assisting the Philippine government in increasing and improving its HADR capability, the move can actually be considered as both economically and politically for the French government for the following reasons:
1. Accepting the offer means a successful sale for France. By loan or not, the Philippines will still be paying for them, thus can still be considered a positive economic news and export for France and Airbus. This will definitely make a small share of revenue and jobs for France.
2. With lowered sales numbers for the A400M from its original buyers like Spain, Germany and the UK, and South Africa cancelling their previous orders, Airbus and the French government together with its partners are looking for ways to find other customers to acquire the aircraft and re-build the numbers it needs. Getting the Philippines to join its current customers is one way of reducing the burden of reduced sales and growing unit costs to cope up with the projected profit and cover development costs of the aircraft. If France decides to offer those it previously committed to buy but decided to cancel, it definitely helps France to share its burden to the Philippines.
3. Getting more customers to have A400M in their inventories will help market the aircraft further to other countries. This is a proven sales strategy that is also applicable to military aircraft. Being considerably more expensive than the smaller Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules and the soon available Embraer KC-390 from Brazil, only a few countries showed actual interest on the Atlas. Making it easy for countries to afford the aircraft by providing financial assistance may help increase the the number of users of the A400M.
4. Airbus might be betting that having the A400M in PAF's inventory will definitely allow the Airbus to possibly get additional orders later on should the PAF replace the legacy C-130 Hercules in its fleet, or if money becomes a non-issue to enlarge the heavy transport fleet from its current numbers.
5. The deal gives France the moral and political vote of confidence and support from the Philippine government and its people, while also gaining positive points to President Francois Hollande, his administration, and the French people for its generosity.
If France really wanted to just assist the Philippines to have a reasonable capability to airlift goods and services during HADR operations, there are several other alternatives they could have offered instead of the hulking A400M. For ODA, they can offer the Airbus Military C-295 transport aircraft similar to what what the PAF ordered recently, although technically the C-295 is more of a Spanish product (being from CASA, now part of Airbus Military). France can also offer larger helicopters than what the PAF currently uses like the Airbus Helicopters EC725 Super Cougar which have good range and capable of airlift operations from hard to reach areas, although these are also expensive. The French government could also provide alternative means to aid the Philippines aside from ODA, like granting retired but still usable and immediately available assets like ex-Armee de l'Air C-160 Transall transport aircraft or Puma helicopters.
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| Instead of the Airbus A400M, why not more of the smaller, more practical and already upcoming Airbus C-295? Although being a Spanish product, the French may prefer to sell something that they really can say as theirs. |
Whatever the real reason is, the A400M is still a well-desired asset of any air force, and having them in PAF service is better than nothing at all.
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MaxDefense is happy to report to its readers that it reached 2 million views last September11, 2014, or after 16 months and 9 days from its beginning. Thank you for your continued support of MaxDefense blogs!!
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UPDATES:
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September 22, 2014:
To clarify MaxDefense readers: Official Development Assistance (ODA) is not applicable to warfighting equipment. It is only applicable to promote economic development and welfare assistance. HADR operations can be considered a welfare assistance, thus only dual-use military equipment can be considered, which includes airlifters like the Airbus A400M. Fighter aircraft, frigates, and the like can't be considered for ODA loans.
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September 26, 2014:
MaxDefense realized that there are a lot of readers who are not familiar with the Airbus Military A400M Atlas. With this, MaxDefense refers you to these websites for further reading:
- Airbus Defense and Space website (official Airbus website for A400M)
- Military Factory website;
- Global Security website;
- Military Today website;
- Flight Global website (news related to A400M)
MaxDefense suggests its readers to read more about the aircraft, its capabilities, and comparison to other similar aircraft like the Lockheed Martin C-130B-H and C-130J, Boeing C-17 Globemaster III, etc.
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September 27, 2014:
Project Philippines strikes again, copying some of the contents of this blog almost word per word. Any idea on who runs this copycat blog?
Money for defense is hard to get in the Philippines we all know that. Getting 2 A400M through a loan is politically easier as the PH/next administration would then be obligated to pay the debt. I'll be surprised if this happens though.
ReplyDeleteThat's one of the possible reasons for the Aquino administration to reject the proposal. Previous statements by the president suggests avoiding further loans that will burden the next administration/s.
DeleteMax a another reason is the planes are too expensive. If the french govt would like to help us thru govt assistance loan why dont they offer offshore patrol boats for our phil coast guard like the japanese did
DeletePlease read the article carefully. The main reason is to sell the struggling aircraft to a new customer. It's not really because they want to help us.
Delete2 million views... congratulations!! and thank you Sir Max..
ReplyDeletemore power...
Thanks...ah...hmm... engot.
Deletegotta admit, it would be a really good idea for the DND to source a lot of war materiel and equipment from France. the Exocet AShM has a decent track record and would be a pretty nice choice over the US-made RGM-84 Harpoon.
ReplyDeleteand the fact that they're always willing to sell with no strings attached is a plus..even though they technically sold some tech to a particular country that everyone here in the SEA region is pretty pissed at right now. ever wondered about those 100mm automatic deck guns on some PLAN ships? based off a French design.
France supplied a lot of military equipment and tehcnology to China in the 80s. Mostly on naval technology that you can now see or reversed engineered by the Chinese. Guns, radar, sonar, fire control systems, diesel engines, and almost an entire ship of French tech.
DeleteFrance has always been known as Western Europe's Russia. As long as you can pay, they'll give you what you want. Look at Russia's Vladivostok-class based on the French Mistral.
and since Russian tech has a really low chance of being given priority here, given the political climate, i guess French-made tech would be a good choice, aside from US-made. that, and Korean-made tech as well.
Deleteoh, and congrats to the 2M view, Max.
Thank you!
DeleteIt looks like our upcoming frigates will be eqjipped with exoccets antiship.
ReplyDeleteReally? I would have thought DND would be single-sourcing from 1 supplier to buy in bulk and save money. The FRAM upgrades on the Goyo & Monching means Harpoons only for those 2, no?
DeleteNothing final yet, Exocet nor Harpoons. But it appears these are the top choices.
DeleteI'm also waiting to see if the Pohang to be decomm'd and donated to us by SK is a Flight 2, in which case, it would make sense to pick MM-40 Block 2 Exocets so we can upgrade the AShM on the Pohang to MM-40 standards or replace with new missiles. In any case, it will still be either Harpoons all the way for every ship in the fleet or Exocets all the way.
DeleteThe launchers used by the MM38 and MM40 are different. The MM40 uses compact tube types like the Harpoon unlike the MM38 using the boxed launchers like the Otomat. No word yet on the Pohang-class although the PN is curiously silent on this one too.
DeleteCongratulations Max for reaching the 2M viewers and let me thank you too for sharing us quality information on Philippine Defence related subject. Every time you post an update like the one above, it is very reassuring that the AFP modernization is taken care off by the government and the Philippine Islands will soon be safe from encroachment. Long live your blog and more years of sharing information with us. Gerry
ReplyDeleteThank you Gery! MaxDefense has reached this point because of readers like you who support the blogsite and the AFP.
Deletebaka hangang "offered" lang ang mga ito.. i'll take all these offered as a grain of salt, look what happen tothe boat that pcg wants to acquire, wala and nga nga!
ReplyDeleteYes, it's still in the "offered" level. You can expect the C-130s from the US which MaxDefense discussed in an earlier blog as more sure than the A400M.
Deleteactually with the updated defense agreement, there is a bigger chance that the p-400 class (and even the D'Estienne d'Orves-class) will be offered at friendlier costs especially if packaged with other weapons systems.
DeleteCongrats! Maxdefense.
ReplyDeletesir max is the A400 is similar to globemaster 2 capability? This is a good news for AFP.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the picture provided in the blog entry shwoing the Globemaster III, Super Herc and Altas, sizewise the Atlas is the middle child. Capacity and range wise shoild also be less than Globemaster III but more than Super Herc.
Deleteyup another wish list in Philippines dreamworld. Anyway Good Job Pnoy.
ReplyDeleteThe A400M was not really in any wishlist of the PAF but was reportedly offered by Airbus and the French government. More like a sales pitch.
DeleteAs for the other offers like those from MBDA, they are already in advanced stages of negotiations and the PN may only be deciding now if they're going Americana or Europa for their ships.
If you look at the pattern, expect a major deal to be sealed everytime a DCA is signed. In this case, it may be more than the C-295.
A400? really? i think pnoy and his staffs drunk too much french wine while they were in france.
ReplyDeleteIt was offered by the French, not requested by the Philippine government.
Deletewhat happened to the la tapaguese deal? havent seen it on pcg inventory. wala nga la tapaguese cgurado wala rin la atlas at mga la fremm na yan, dapat may pasalubong na military hardware from la bleue
ReplyDeleteThe deal was not pursued, dead since a few months ago. I believe an update was made in a previous MaxDefense entry on this ship deal.
DeleteFor all Pinoy Patriots – the first question regarding proposed AFP deals should always be – will it deter bullies ? Otherwise it is a waste of precious limited funds and precious time. The few items that would make big bullies think twice are multi-role fighters and submarines. Anything else like big transport airplanes and old or even new frigates do not matter. I don’t see any mention of the above items in the France visit. I hope somebody who really know what they are doing (and not one who stand to get a filthy large commission on arms deals) would advise the President not to waste time on irrelevant items !
ReplyDeleteAFP's mission is not only to fight foreign invaders but to assist the national government in nation building and HADR operations. Being a dual use equipment, it is more palatable for budget allocation compared to fighting machines. Nontheless it is an important asset for combat and non combat operations as a logistics equipment. Remember Napoleon's words "an army marches on its stomach", without proper logistics our military will fail.
DeleteA determined enemy will not be deterred by a few armed ships. More advanced militaries like Japan and Taiwan are prime examples of China's continuous bullying. If China really wants to kick our arses, even if we have Aegis destroyers, they will do it. So while we want the AFP to have more fighting equipment, let's not be too calluous and not feel the other needs to the military.
Deletewere not even in the eyes of china but the disputed island is. besides how can you expect JUAN defend himself against The Dragon if he don't have enough money to buy equipment moreover feed himself? Just saying...
Deletejust what I mentioned before on the C295 entry, it would be great if PAF will be able to have a heavy lift transport aircraft like the A400M but I'm not optimistic that this offer will be accepted. the €150M price of A400M each is the main factor even through loan this will take a long time to be fully paid, another is the maintenance cost of this aircraft. if this offer is somehow accepted PNOY definitely deserved a 2nd tern for his political will in modernizing the AFP.
ReplyDelete€150 million is a huge amount, almostbthe cost of 1 of our new incoming light frigates. But that depends on the AFP and the government if they will accept the offer. It would probably be cheaper to have in the long run since its new.
Delete"I prefer more C-295...but there might be reasons why they offered A400M."
DeleteThe C-295 is a great multi-purpose and very cost-effective aircraft and I hope that the AFP gets more of them.
The A400M might seem a little of overkill right now but, as you have written, it's a dual-purpose aircraft that when you really need it (i.e. natural disaster) can do the job of two C-130s. Also, two/three A400Ms would be enough since the C-295 would free them from doing other missions that in past required an aircraft like the C-130.
It would also end up being cheaper in the long run not only because they would be newly built but also because it shares a good number of components with the C-295. This commonality would help reduce the logistical and maintenance costs.
Given that both Spain and Germany want to resell a number of their already ordered aircraft, I just hope that the Philippines are able to pressure France into reducing the offered price to the point that the deal is worth it even taking into consideration the loan payments.
Better buy another light frigates or at least 1 missile capable corvettes than accept the deal with A400M. We should allocate our limited resources wisely. Even if its a loan, it will get a big chunk of our modernization budget even if in long term payment. Anyway,congrats for the 2M views.....I think it's been more than a year since I first read your blog and been a follower since then!
DeleteJoemel, there are no countries offering frigates for ODA, so this doesn't make any weight. The A400M's case is different - the French government is willing to provide by spreading the amount on a long term, making it easy to buy. The frigates the PN are buying are spread into several payments from downpayment to delivery - all probably less than 3 years.
DeleteIts nice to hear that France offered us the A-400. This aircraft has good payload and range and ideal for disaster relief aside from its military mission. Very useful for evacuation of stranded OFW’s abroad. The last time the air force sent its c-130 aircraft to evacuate OFW from other countries. I vote for this aircraft and I hope the govt will accept this offer because it is offered thru loans and maybe similar to the payment scheme for firetrucks from Austria with low interest rates and long term payment which I believe it is good for our country. Last time the coast guard plans to purchase 5 patrol boats from France also from a loan. Any information of what happen to this planned purchase Sir Max?
ReplyDeleteBy the way, congratz Sir max for the 2m viewers of your very informative blog.
Renbios
Thank you for your support.
DeleteThe previous PCG announcements are also baffling me. Nothing on the French patrol boats and OPV. I'll see if I can get other sources to fill this in. I was expecting news on this one but the A400M got more mileage.
Really like your blog but quite sincerely not enough
ReplyDeletecongrats max ..
ReplyDeleteCongrats, Sir Max more power to this site!
DeleteThank you makisig007!
Deletecongrsts sir max for the 2million views milestone
ReplyDeletejust wondering kung kasama din sa 2million viewers ng blogsite na to ang ating afp at dnd officials ksi parang wa epek sa kanila mga comments natin
sana ikaw na lng maging defense secretary
Yes. And media as well. We also get a lot of foreign readers and overseas Filipinos here at almost 50%.
DeleteSir max..di po ba may loan ang nakaraang administrasyon tungkol ata sa pagpapagawa ng tulay or something but instead ay gagamitin n lang pambili ng barko ng pcg?...
ReplyDeleteThat's what I'm curious to know as well. Those are not for bridges but for RoRo ports. No news on this during the meetings, and the PCG has done nothing yet until now. All their acquisition plans (patrol boats and OPV from France, helicopters) except for the Japanese funded patrol boats are still up in the air.
DeleteGreat God! 2 million readers! I'm in it. A thousand congrats Max.
ReplyDeleteA400M is a bling-bling military transport aircraft. There's only one SEA country that I know that buys A400M and that is the Malaysian AF. Well... good luck to them. Other SEA countries have been offered by France/Airbus but none are interested. AFP should stick to Herkies, 295s, and 212s. They're PROVEN reliable and PROVEN very cost effective.
Malaysia has a reason in acquiring the A400M. They also have more than a dozen C-130s and CN-235s in their transport fleet.
DeleteCongrats 2M viewer and more power.. When i read that Pnoy will also visit France, I was wishing that Pres. F Holland will offer one of the Mistral LHD if and just in case he decided to scrap/cancel the sale to Russia. It will be awesome to have it in PN. Still I'm hoping that Pnoy will accept the offer of 2 A400M, it cost a lot of $ but what the heck our government is losing a lot of money to corrupt politicians. these heavy lift will be a big asset for AFP in terms of HADR & logistics, as Max correctly put it..its a win-win for both country. - ilocano aeroblazer
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible for the PH to get the Mistrals even if they cancel the delivery to Russia. From what I know, the strongest possible buyer should this happen is Canada, and multinational ownership with NATO.
Deletesir max tanung ko lang ho,hindi ba kaya ng Pilipinas na gumawa na lang ng mga sariling war factories?.ung bang sariling naval, aircraft and tank factories e marami naman tayong magagaling na engineers.nacurious lang sir max.
ReplyDeleteFor now, we can't. We're can't even produce our own civilian machinery and we can't even say we have the industrial capability. Military industry is born out of industrial strength, which we sorely lack.
Deletebuild first our economy, industrial complex and air/space industry before talking about military industry.
Deletea nation with a strong economy has a strong military, not the other way around
e sir max anu-ano ba ung mga industrial strength na tinutukoy mo?.ung mga ship building companies sa pinas bawal bang gumawa na lang rin sila ng mga sarili nating navy ships?.
DeleteFor one we don't even have a steel industry. Look for the news about Tsuneishi shipyard saying that we will lose our edge in building commercial ships because we don't have a steel industry. There are a lot more industries we need but steel and other metallurgical industry is the most basic that we need before we even dream of building our own big guns, ships and aircrafts.
DeleteGinoginoako
Sir max ano n balita sa bid ng 2 frigates natin may nanalo nba?
ReplyDeleteA400 181 million us dollars. I dnt believe we can purchase this kind of asset. Maybe additional c130t or old and semi retired c160. This is to much expensive.
ReplyDeleteYes, except if the French and Philippine governments agree on something that will allow the PAF to have them without the PH government paying immediately. That's why the French are offerig through Official Government Assistance programs which are actually long term loans with minimal or no interest depending on the deal.
Delete$181M dollars (P7.783B pesos @ P43/$) can already buy 15,566 classrooms for remote barangays or low-cost houses (@500K/house) for the homeless who lost their houses from natural disasters. Not recommendable to buy such expensive transports at this time. In the future maybe if our economy has reached the level of S. Korea.
DeleteThat's the biggest mistake the Ph government do - to compare military equipment and classrooms. Defense has always been expensive, but it is a responsibility of the people and government if we wanted to maintain our sovereignity. Why didn't we just become an American colony forever if we do not want to spend on defending the country?
DeleteThe point of discussion here is whether the A400M should have been offered instead of more C-295 or other alternatives.
Defense and economy goes hand in hand. That is what South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand and other more advanced economies in Asia did. A country must maintain a defensive capability commensurate to its economic capability. This helps keep stability, foreign policy confidence and weight, amd respect from neighbors. As the economic level grows, the military capability grows as well.
DeleteI find this people comparing the defense to education ignorant. Education always gets the biggest slice in budget so why those people wander in a forum like this. If we can't get enough classrooms for our students even with that budget, ask your government officials about it.
DeleteI agree with Max that Defense and economy goes hand in hand, its the leftist/rightist militant way of thinking to compromise the defense in favor of education, low cost housing etc.
DeleteRe: military spending vs. classrooms issue. I don't think the question is can we afford to spend for our defensive capability or not - because we can. The question is more of political will, since PH politicos would rather not spend a single centavo on military hardware if they can get away with it, with public support for military spending being lukewarm, at best.
Delete"with public support for the military spending being lukewarm, at best"
DeleteOne of the most true statements I've read all year
What I meant is buy a $181M Transporter in the future if the economy can afford it. This transporter is to be utilized for HADR purpose and not troop transporter w/c has no application in our present situation. Natural calamities does not happen everyday but there is already an immediate need to provide shelter for thousands already left homeless from previous disasters. 1 or 2 transporters cannot help them but thousands of low-cost houses will. Of course, our AFP needs weapons and that will come as our economy grows.Do you think we can kick China out Spratly Islands, if we buy these 2 Transporters. If our government is really serious of defending our sovereignty, it should quadruple the defense budget for the next 5 years at the expense of education, public works, social services & health. And I don't see it is going to happen even under the Pnoy Administration. Whose ignorant now...
Deletethis blog isn't for you, Roberts. this is a DEFENSE blog.
DeleteCongraz sir max... im proud to be part of 2million readers!!! Keep growing maxdefense!!!
DeleteRobert... try to understand that the money for defense are for defense... you dont use a hammer to fight against a gun, and you dont use gun to build a house... don't be so narrow minded...
Roberts, so when is the the time to buy transports. When our GDP reaches $300 billion? $400 billion? $600 billion? The fact is the government spends 0.8% of GDP on defense. When the global minimum is 1.5% of GDP.
DeleteThe point is, a country should always set aside some money on defense. If you don't understand that, I suggest you should read some history books. The only reason why we haven't been invaded since WWII is the Mutual Defense Treaty with America. Treaties don't last forever.
To Anonymous…If you are not the originator of this Defense Blog, you are a nobody to me and have no right to tell me or anyone else who are allowed to give their thoughts on this blog. If you disagree with the opinion or points of view of other people, you need not show your unethical manner and bad attitude of replying. Sorry if I offended you. Just a normal reaction to unnecessary remarks.
DeleteRegarding allocating defense budget, I have already said to quadruple the budget of DND for the next 5 years. The government should be decisive on this if it is really serious in defending our sovereignty. Is that not clear to you. Any weapons systems or transports will be good for the Philippines but we just don’t buy them for the sake of having them. As an example, why would you buy an A400M for $181M when you can get a C-130J Super Hercules for only $73M and the difference the government can utilize for housing and classrooms. Getz mo ba…
http://www.deagel.com/Military-Transport-Aircraft/C-130J-Super-Hercules_a000526004.aspx
DeleteTo be more specific. If Pnoy proceeds with the acquisiton of the A400M on credit, budget for payment of the loan will not actually come only from the defense budget but will originate from suceeding yearly national budget. Budgets of the other departments will have to be reduced and re-allocated to DND to pay the $181 million. If you still don't understand, I also suggest you widen your horizon and not limit your mind only to defense matters.
DeleteRoberts, building houses and buying transports are 2 different items, 2 different solutions to different problems. Building houses for calamity victims are long term solutions, but during the few hours to weeks after the calamity, transport requirements will be very important. The Yolanda is a very good example of how HADR operations were done, and you can see the strength of the C-17, Il-76 and C-130 in this type of work.
DeleteFor defense procurement, planners are the ones who determine what they need. This is their job, to identify what the military will need now, and in the future. So far we don't know if the AFP, DND, or PAF have raised a requirement for aircraft larger than the C-130. If they did, and they find the A400M as within their requirements, so be it. If they find the C-130 still ok, then better they go for more C-130s. Defense procurement should NOT BE ENTIRELY bounded by financial issues, but should be according to what the AFP really needs.
DeleteMax, you just said it, A400M was never part of the list our military planners required for the AFP military needs. It just came out of the blue when France offered it under ODA during Pnoys visit. You also mentioned that Official Development Assistance (ODA) is not applicable to warfighting equipment. It is only applicable to promote economic development and welfare assistance like HADR.From my understanding, it is supposed to be for a civilian agency but since it has military application, it is only fitting that the AFP takes control of it. But still, the budget for it will come from the yearly gov't. budget and not solely by the DND budget after the national budget has been distributed among the departments. And if the savings from buying a C-130J instead of an A400M is utilized for housing of military soldiers affected by natural disasters or establishment of a separate military academies for the PAF and PN, doesn't that make a better option.
DeleteNever in the plans, based on those previously declassified for public consumption. But defense planning has always been changing according to current events, threat assessment, financial capability, emerging technology and available products, and according to the government's policies. As I said also, we still do not know if the defense planning have changes that will or might include the requirement for aircraft like the A400M.
DeleteCivilian agencies cannot maintain the A400M, and there's no other aviation-related agency in the government best to use and maintain the A400M other than the PAF. The PAF, being a part of the AFP and DND, has HADR as part of its duties and responsibilities, as the NDRRMC is part of the DND.
If the C-130J is enough for the PAF and AFP's requirement, then so be it, but as I said, we do not know if there are changes in the AFP's requirements as they are now expecting a lot of new capabilities in their arsenal, probably including the need to transport these around the country and may not fit the C-130.
Aren't we getting a whole bunch of APCs, radar, surface to air and surface to surface missile platforms? Sooner or later we'll need transports with better lift capability. It's not like we are just one big land mass.
DeleteCapacity of a C-130J Supe Hercules:
Delete92 passengers (128 for C-130J-30 stretched variant) or
64 airborne troops (92 for C-130J-30) or
6 pallets (8 pallets for C-130J-30) or
74 litter patients with 2 medical personnel (97 litters for C-130J-30) or
2–3 Humvees, or 1 LAV III (with turret removed) Light Armored Vehicle or an M113 Armored Personnel Carrier
Nothing much to say but congratulations on reaching the 2 million viewer mark. Kudos to you Max and for such informative blog of yours. You did enlighten up everyone. I'm happy to be the first one to comment on your first blog. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteThank you Paul Ole for your continued support for more than a year! People like you are instrumental for the blog's success, and hopefully it continues to provide information on defense and security to more Filipinos.
DeleteI believe that Pino don't need A400M ... Currently, we still need more guts and fighting spirit to fight our biggest bullyer (PRC).
ReplyDeleteModern weapons are useless if we have no guts ... Most important is the man behind the gun
So how can we measure and obtain "guts"?
Deletequit the macho talk bullshit and face the fact that WE NEED TO MODERNIZE the AFP. especially the Navy and the PAF, due to the fact that we're an archipelago.
Deleteguts aren't worth shit if you don't have the tools to augment that.
Muntik na akong mag twerking Max...Joke! Big Congrats!!!!
ReplyDeletePinoys need informative blog like "Maxdefense" !!!! Keep it up and more power to you..
All I can say " freedom is expensive, Americans learned it the hard way when they fought the British in 1812"
As long as the AFP will continue to upgrade their capability, this FREEDOM is and always be maintained.
serge
Thank you serge, the problem is the PH's politicos don't understand that, or they do but they have their own personal interests to make use of the money for the country's defense.
Deleteyeah right... congrats sir, max.
DeleteThanks Sateshi!
DeleteHi Max, Congratulations on your 2 million milestone. you've been an interesting "must read" site being the 2 million readers' barometer for the afp modernization program's progress. But you got me a bit worried with your silence in the past weeks. Great work! Freddie
ReplyDeleteTha k you Freddie. There are times that you just need a good rest.
DeleteMaganda sana offer sir max kaya lng mahal ang A-400M.C-295 na lang at 24 na MRF ok pa yun.
ReplyDeleteI prefer more C-295...but there might be reasons why they offered A400M.
Deleteyes c295 is great but considering the local disaster and ofw evacuation overseas a400m is great at least we have a dual use big aircraft, ofw is our modern day hero they must be served... congrats max.. nick
DeleteThe Philippine Government should request the French that they instead offer the 300 million euro loan for acquisition of anti-submarine corvettes rather than the A400 atlas transports. This I believe is the more pressing need for our AFP, we already have programs that address the HADR with the medium lift and the used C130's from the US. What do you think Max/?
ReplyDeleteAs I said earlier, it would be more palatable for the French and Philippine governments to provide/receive loans for HADR capable equipment. If the financing will come from ODA, you can't push for warfighting equipment.
DeleteNEDA approval is required to avail of ODA, they measure availment of ODAs also in terms of economic rate of return. Offering the ODA and coating the A400M for HADR use will justify the ODA availment. Am sure too there were preliminary discussions on the matter even before this was presented to PNOY. This was not an off the cap thing, some staff work were done here. Freddie
DeleteFreddie, it might be possible that both the French and Philippine governments may have already looked at the possibility of providing Airbus A400M as an ODA even before the meeting with French government and Airbus officials. So it is not totally impossible for such program to happen. As a HADR-capable equipment, it is indeed possible for ODA, subject to approval by the respective agencies from both countries.
DeleteMax, speaking of HADR -- had we entertained the idea of getting the remaining Batral. In fact, one unit which was decomm'd last year may still be available at Brest. Our LCM/LCT force is still below adequate numbers and we have seen our PGs being used to deliver. The Batral (with its LCVP) can reach smaller islands and with a helipad, can also be used as a pit-stop point for distributing helicopters. Sealift can provide more sustainable capacity over the more expensive A400 airlifts.
DeleteThere are Batral ships that are currently in civilian hands, although I am not updated if there are already sold for civilian use. As for the 2 remaining Batrals in French Navy service, I believe there are some talks about them but nothing concrete yet.
Deletewhen i check the spec of A400 aircraft it is near with c-17 Globemaster of US
ReplyDeleteQUESTION IS DO WE NEED THAT AIRCRAFT??? or we can bargain for few MRF or a Corvette at least, assuming its a soft loan deal....
Congrats Sir Max, me too im always waiting for your new and updated blog.
DeleteFor me, as of the moment we don't need that A400 transport aircraft even she'll be a dual purpose or even a multipurpose either, what we need NOW is all weather combat ship with high endurance that do not requires limited time patrolling our EEZ. Soon we'll have our own march 1.5 FA-50 that can help in patrolling and intercepting intruder from our air space. for the meantime tama na muna sa atin yong C130 mayron pa naman tayong padating na C295. Later after complying our other AFP department needs. then well go back for the possible A400 if really our AFP need it dba?
mcpadz
Warfighting equipment can't be provided for Official Development Assistance (ODA) loans. Soft loans for military procurement is different from ODA, and the French has only so far offered ODA for A400M. The French government has a say on what they can offer for ODA, although the Philippine government also has a say if they're going to accept the deal or not.
DeleteMcPadz, we don't know exactly what the PAF requirements are, and it might be possible that they are requesting for capabilities that the C-130 can't provide and might be solved by acquiring a pair of A400M. So far the French has nothing to offer that is the equivalent of the C-130 except for the A400M.
DeleteAccepting that the A400 is close to the Globemaster, yes we still need the A400 as we need its capability to fullfil our responsibilities under the different treaties we have signed with other countries. Let's not forget that part, it adds to our country's reputation and more importantly strategic credibility.
DeleteThe A400M is actually in between the C-130 and C-17, so comparing it to both planes is like comparing lemons to oranges to calamansi. What we need to know is if the PAF/AFP/DND really requires such aircraft to justify paying for the huge amount. Because if it's not needed, then better settle for something good enough for their requirement but smaller and cheaper to acquire and operate.
DeleteOff topic. What's the latest on the DND radar acquisition? Thanks MaxD.
ReplyDelete2 million views that spans globally is something else, commendable no less. Not to mention talking about Philippines defense procurements in a country rattled by corruption, a questionable military organization, children roaming the streets to beg for food, etc.
ReplyDeleteThis blog site gives the Filipinos something to be proud about, WE NOW KNOW WHERE SOME OF THE TAXES GOES WITH ACTUAL FIGURES. Even with the military's record of corruption in every corner of it's organization, there are still people willing and doing their best for the Philippine military institutions. Sad to say in times of peace especially for a developing country, military modernization is an engagement that only forward thinking individuals and political leaders are willing to see as a real need and a long term security investment. Military spending will not garner peoples votes come election time.
A capable military organization is one part of a big picture to make a country great. I only hope that all will fall into place when the time comes -- A Philippine armed forces that can perform it's mandate 101%, A vibrant Philippine economy for it's people, Filipinos believing that the Philippines is a great nation...
Also, kudos to the equipment upgrading of the other branches of government that implements the law.
congrats"
ReplyDeleteMax Congrats! for reaching 2M views.. you mention about alternative transport aircraft for the A400 like transal c-160.. would it be good for PAF to acquire those transport aircraft? I've read that those aircraft's are in the near end of their service. and if refurbished would it be operational for more years in service knowing that their air frames are too old.. thanks
ReplyDeletehiblood
Hiblood, actually no, you're right that they are old are at the end of their lifespan. It was just an example, but it's good that you highlighted it as I am not actually in favor of acquiring them.
DeleteHi Sir Max, congrats for the 2M views. More power!
ReplyDeleteI'm concerned though sa sources of AFP's air and naval assets. Merong American, merong South Korean, merong Japanese, merong Israel, merong Canadian technology. Now, possibly French na naman. I wonder lang, how could DND manage the different spare parts and repair & maintenance requirements, not to mention the different training requirements of that different naval and air assets. Hindi kaya mas mapapamahal o mas mahihirapan pa ang AFP kung iba't-ibang technologies ang meron tayo? Hindi kaya mas mapapamahal ang AFP kung iba't-ibang spare parts ang kailangan para sa repairs & maintenace ng mga assets na ito? I think concern din ito ni FVR.
Still, this French offer is still a good development for the armed forces.
Hello Sir Max.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all Congratulations for hitting the 2 million viewer mark for your site! More power and please do continue in providing a very thorough update regarding our AFP's modernization plans!
Also, I enjoy reading your articles (almost on a daily basis) and to be proud that at least our own military is trying hard (even with a limited budget) to improve their capability. Our military is actually in awkward situation, defend the country in a protratcted conflict against insurgents, respond to calamities and now to secure our territorial rights AND DO ALL OF THIS WITH LIMITED RESOURCES/ASSETS... We have proven time and time again that the filipino soldier do not back down from a fight...imagine if we have the equipment we sorely needed to pursue that task.
I wholeheartedly support these modernization plans and the A400M offer from France would be a welcome site indeed! As you say..it's a win-win situation for both countries
Congrats sir max been following your blog for a year now. More power!
ReplyDeleteThank you Ben for your continued support!
DeleteWay to go Max.... Congrats on your milestone accomplishment.
ReplyDeleteThe A-400 is being offered with incentives because it is not moving very well. They see our economy doing well and we are potentially a prime target for these kind of things. At $192M each, maybe pricy but categorizing it as disaster relief equipment may qualify it for rock bottom interest rates on a long term amortization schedule. Then that becomes affordable and easier in our cash flow requirements.
Some notable benefits:
-provides tremendous amount of flexibility especially on bigger loads like helicopters and heavier armored vehicles. In the future if we have to move our long range radars, SAMs, SSMs, rapidly the c-130's may not be able to carry them. But this one can.
-can do refueling for our future fighters and other aircraft.
I have a hunch also that this offer was a string attached to a business manufacturing opportunity that Pnoy saw for PH. I saw him watching a presentation by Dassault Systemes which is the leading software developer and innovator for the 3D printing technology. I read in some reports that there is a plan to make the PH an aircraft parts manufacturing hub. Well, the wave of the future in aircraft parts manufacturing is in 3D printing technology. it's like I scratch your back provided you do the same to me. They're trying to move an item that is slow moving.
This offer should not be equated to classrooms, food for the poor or some social services to be met. That's been the mentality of our past leadership the last 40 years and have neglected our defense which I think is the most important now a days. And we are paying a painful price.
I will appreciate your insight to these things.
The French must be thinking, before we can help you, you must help us too. All those investment that PNOY brings home comes with a price. The dwindling customer of the A400 brings bad news for airbus/france. Having us acquire two will lessen the burden and keep the production line going.
DeleteIs the A400 capable in landing on the PAGASA airstrip? Imagine the load of logistics it can bring to that island.
And Congratulations on the Achievement. It is always a pleasure reading your blog
According to open source, in tactical transport capacity it can take off and land in less than 1km airfied. Pag-asa Island's airstrip (Rancudo Airfield) is 1.4km long if not for the damages on its ends, but if the government can fix it, the A400M has no problems operating from it. But so does the C-130.
DeleteSanti, that is also possible. Actually the C-130 can do what the A400M can do except for a larger carrying capacity that can carry heavier or more sizable load, and longer range with a little more cargo.
DeleteWe need that kind of transport even before it can carry much load in one trip than c130 also it more fuel edficient than the globemaster engine it can also load larger vehicle than c130 can carry. Also it can be also use in repatriation of our citizen abroad in countries with conflict.
ReplyDeleteRepatriation can actually be done by chartered airliners, but depending on safety conditions. If worse comes to worse, military transports come in to bring them to the nearest safe zone where chartered airlines can pick them up.
DeleteBTW, Max....how about scorpene class diesel submarine? Even a second hand deal will be great! Since a kilo class subs is almost impossible since its a russian made, Scorpene subs will be good alternative....aside from korean or japanese made subs.... I suggest this will be one of your next topic. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteJoemel, although submarines are being considered by the PN, they are currently not in the forefront of the acquisition program. Previous statements of the DND and PN describe submarines that are at the same size or smaller than the Scorpene, but we'll have to get more information from the PN first, which unfortunately is not yet finalized.
DeleteIt's very unfortunate that the PN doesn't prioritize sub acquisition. I'm not even hoping for the 3 subs in their modernization plans, some of us just wants 1 sub for the Philippines. No, not as means for defense, but just a training vessel to enable us to acquire skills in operating one. Just one second-hand scorpene will do for now, and maybe in 10 years we'll get 3 andrasta's. - Neo
DeleteNeo, the Scorpene is a fairly new model and there are no available second hand Scorpenes as of the moment. The PN needs to first build up its surface fleet, which is also in poor condition. This is the most basic requirement of a navy yet its still not met. So before they go for subs, they need to prioritize fixing its surface fleet first.
DeleteBefore getting subs, doesn't the PN need to map the sea floor first? Indonesia is doing this now in the own seas but I have not heard anything about the Philippines doing the same.
DeleteWe should maybe expect a rental or purchase of a littoral research ship before any subs are purchased....hmm I'm just guessing here.
DeleteA surface fleet may be basic for a navy but I think the AFP should re-think our strategy of "minimum credible defense" in line with what our defense forces will be up against. Submarines due to their built-in quality of stealth is a very good deterrent to a would be aggressor. Just the knowledge that our forces are equipped with such a capability will make the aggressor think twice or even thrice before doing anything. We can start by acquiring one to start training our navy on submarine warfare but there should be a long term plan to have a small fleet in place.
DeleteThanks for the correction sir Max. I understand the need for surface vessels and we sorely lack them, but my point is -- the PN needs to start somewhere with regards to operating a sub. Just like what I said earlier, the sub doesn't need to be new, it doesn't have to be big, it just needs to be a decent, functioning sub that should be used mainly for training.
DeleteAs for the A400s, I like them, it's just that - it's too expensive and even if we get them thru loans, it's still outgoing money that could be used elsewhere.
-Neo
The PN already has subs in its acquisition plans, but it has not been placed in the priority, as I said earlier, the surface fleet is in bad shape. Submarine operations require larger capital and budget to maintain, and having them now will surely sink the entire PN. This will come at a right time, let the PN fix itself first.
DeleteSir joemel australian govt buys 10 soryu class worth 17 billion us dollars to japanese govt.
ReplyDeleteNot yet final. Still being deliberated.
DeleteCongrats sir Max on the 2 Million view milestone for your blog. I am curious and excited on what will be purchased by the Afp after signing the defense agreement with France. Whether it is the A400M or Frigate or missile from MBDA, it will always be welcome news for the pinoys who are patiently waiting for any bit of information about the AFP modernization. More power to your blog sir.
ReplyDeleteIncluding $ 20 billion in military assistance the source ...
ReplyDeleteAustralia to Hobart class or mad that ...
Now Hobart Class ----> $ $ 2.7 billion rise
Australia is no shipbuilding technology
Aegis not getting used to the Goliath crane
Gaps occurs between the block and Bullock
Reassemble ...
But the price is expensive soryu class
Nuclear submarine price ....
max kinda offtopic:
ReplyDeleteis the leadership of the AFP/DND considers acquiring licensing or tech transfer from our allies? small items like FLIR, sensors, night fighting system, communication system, etc.This does not need a big military industry whicu the phil lacks, the G.A. with an improved budget can make this.
Can we afford this kind of approach? Yes, money is not the only way we can pay.
tnx, ian
sir max, congrats!... I always keep checking for a new blogs here about AFP Modernazation, thanks for your very informative and interesting blogs.....
ReplyDeleteSir I have a question, with a possibility of EDA's coming from France, how do the AFP-DND sees the retiring naval ships of French Navy like the Georges Leygues class frigate?Have they look at it,or shown interest?...if these frigates were offered by France through EDA,what is the difference between these and those scrapped Maestrale deal before?...
Hi max im a follower of yours How about a surface to air missile defense is there any development we really need that one a a sophisticated radar system..anyway more power on hitting 2M views and counting.
ReplyDeleteHi max, Is there any development to air to surface missile defense and a radar? we really need that before going further to any acquisitions more power on hitting 2M views and counting
ReplyDeleteCongrats on this achievement, Max.
ReplyDeleteGoing French, we will be able to find premiere military hardware here. First and foremost is the MM40 Exocet Block III for HDP. For the Army, the French are in the process of replacing the AMX-10 RC. This 6 x 6-drive combat vehicle is very much suited for the PMC as it is fully amphibious and driven by water jets while in the water. Its main gun, the Giat 105mm BK MECA (F2) L48 rifle-bored dwarfs the PA Scorpion ARV's 76mm main gun and is very much capable of anti-tank jobs for the PA Mechanized Division. Likewise, the VAB family of amphibious armored personnel vehicle can be very much suited to the Phil. watery terrain.
Another item is the Mistral-1 short range surface to air missile which can be easily adaptable to the AFP as a whole for its modernization. Currently, aside from the PMC's 40mm Bofors L60 truck-mounted AAA, the AFP has no AA capability whatsoever. I hope that the gov't DND and AFP be able to take advantage of these proceedings.
I am already contended with the Aquino Administration of acquisition of Fa50 jets from South Korea. What I am waiting for the next modernization is the two new frigates and the SAM missile defense system. Nway Congratulation Sir Max for the success of your site and hitting 2 million followers. God Bless and more power !
ReplyDeletecan a400 land on any of our domestic airports? if yes then im in favor of its purchase. there are many pros and cons about this plane but i think pros outweighs cons.
ReplyDeleteif you experienced or you have families who suffered on the YOLANDA cguro sasabhin nyo how i wish our govt have those giant planes.
its easy for some of us to say na hndi natin kailangan ang ganitong assets kasi hndi nyo pa naranasan ang matinding calamities
I posted it somewhere here, it can operate as a tactical airlifter with less than a kilometer of runway. Almost all our major domestic airports have at least 2 kilometers if I'm not mistaken, and almost all have at least 1.5 kilometers. A good pilot can make do of these parameters.
DeleteMistral-class amphibious assault ship can be offered as a ODA? due to "dual purposed" as a HADR... :) :) (excuse my crappy comment "kung makalusot lang") btw congratz and keep up the good work, you look like a future submariner captain to me..
ReplyDeleteBy the name of the ship itself "assault" already is a reminder that it has great capability for HADR but was not really made for it.
DeleteFrom France, we can procure the land based version of their Exocet missile, if they would be less expensive than the Harpoon or Brahmos. I think the AFP should really consider a shore based anti ship defense system which can cover at least our EEZ boundaries.
ReplyDeleteAnyone knows what the activity last night of the helicopter flying in the vicinity of cubao,mandaluyong and pasig? I dont think if it is a AW-109 or Sokol Helicopter?I seen it flying at around 8:00pm to 9:00pm
ReplyDeleteprobably not really much of a deal. i occasionally see some Navy AW109s fly overhead on Macapagal blvd. whenever i make my usual commute back home from college.
DeleteMy Vote is Yes with the Following Condition
ReplyDelete1. If ever we are able to acquire this one at a very very low interest rate why not grab 3x of this.
At least we know the tax we paid is going to this not on some bogus goverment project na overbudget.
2. The Goverment and AFP will allocate a budget for Proper Maintenance of this Asset. ( I do not want this expensive item be like our C130's rotting away due to lack of budget for maintenance.
3. The use of this Assets ONLY for the following.
Oversize Cargo that will not fit on C130's
Immediate Deployment, Re-Supply and Evacuation
5. Support Scientific Research and Education
4. Goverment Officials is limited in using this for Emergency Only. Not for other "official Political agendas o anumang paotot...
yes I agree with you..
DeleteStop wasting limited budget on buying the A400M, the Gowind and other new but expensive French defense equipment. Concentrate on acquiring for concessional price then rehab and upgrade in the Philippines:
ReplyDelete1. Mirage F1
2. D' Estienne d'orves corvettes
3. Floreal frigates
4. C.160 Transall cargo aircraft
5. BATRAL class landing ships
6. L'Audacieuse class patrol boats
7. Leopard class patrol boats
8. Alphajet trainers
9. Others
The DND/AFP better change course.
Instead of buying large, expensive, new equipment, they should suit their strategy to fit our limited financial resources but massive human resources.
Instead of spending too much money and time on assessing if proposed new equipment follow their specs, they should just buy existing capable equipment. A lot of European hardware are in the market already.
The Chinese are now building islands in the WPS and what do we have after 4 years. Pinapahamak nyo na ang bayan sa mali ninyong strategy.
Lapu Lapu
Lapu Lapu, please re-read the blog entry one more time. There is a reason why the A400M is becoming a very attractive offer even if the AFP needs other equipment as well.
DeleteThe A400M is a bad bad idea no matter how the deal is being spunned by those with vested interest.. It does not matter - even if the ODA financing is almost free. We simply do not need a large cargo aircraft mostly designed for invading other countries. There are other far more less costly alternatives for HADR work - at 4-10 million USD, the MV Susitna now looks like the bargain of the century. The only way the A400M would work for us is if Airbus agrees to set up shop and let us at least manufacture the tail assembly.
DeleteThere are many ways to get around the ODA BS restrictions if France really want to help us defend our territory. We could for example use the A400M for a couple of years of HADR work and then do an exchange later with Japan or Sweden for equivalent no. of MRF's. Japan could better use the A400M just in case they decide to occupy Beijing again if these Red Bullies continue to misbehave. But we already know the answer. Such kind of exchange deal would not fly. The Big Red Dawg is projected to need 7000 new passenger jet aircraft within the next 20 years. Airbus will do anything to get the majority of that huge market. One call from the PLA and such kind of deal is over. However my overall point is there are many ways to get around ODA restrictions if the US or France would really want to help us deter bullies from doing blatant reclamation projects inside our territories.
Actually its too early to tell if the PAF (or the AFP and DND) needs an aircraft this size, because it depends on what are in their plans for the future. The AFP may need it to transport upcoming systems that may not fir the C-130. Or the DND may acquire HADR facilities that can't fit the C-130. Or the national government may use this in a larger economic or political deal with France. Whatever the reason is, its too early to really conclude that "we don't need this plane" because ultimately we do not have enough information that the planners in the DND/AFP/PAF have.
DeleteAlso, France has been specific, this is not for invading countries, but for HADR operations. The AFP may use this aircraft for its military operations but of course its the subtle part of the acquisition program.
DeleteSir Max, if the DND or AFP need to transport large items that can not be handled by existing aircraft - all they have to do is call the Russians. They have cargo aircraft even larger than the A400M that are for rent. It's not like the DND or AFP are going to transport large items all the time. Even the USAF does not need their largest cargo master most of the time.More than likely - if the AFP/DND needs such an airlifter, is once in a decade situation. Let us not waste 400 million USD of our precious limited funds when we can obviously find better uses for them. And let us not rely on political deals on countries that have huge trade and business ties with the Red Devil. The fact of the matter is that such countries always look out first and foremost for their own interests.
DeleteLapulapu
DeleteBakit ayaw mo ba ang 2 magagarang Strategic Support Vessel, kaysa 5 corvette ng Spain at Italy.
Ayaw mo rin ba sa 2 Long Range Patrol Aircraft na bumubuga ng P1 million sonobuoys, kaysa sa 10 Islander Defenders
Ayaw mo rin ba sa 2 bagong bagong frigates, kaysa sa 3 Maestrale na nag papatrolya na sana ngayon
Ayaw mo rin ba sa 12 bagong bagong TA-50 trainer light fighter na dadating after 1 year, kaysa 25 na aprubadong Kfir na dumadating na sana ngayon.
Lahat sa parehong presyo, pero mas mabilis dumating. Mabwibwisit ka talaga Lapulapu sa mga apuapuhan mo. Sangkaterbang pulo na nagagawa ng Intsik sa WPS
Magellan
Sir max! I visit your blog daily congratulations for 2 million views.do you think there is slowdown in afp modernisation? DJ
ReplyDeleteThank you DJ. Its not really a slowdown, but the influx of money for the program is hampered by red tape and too much politics from all sides.
DeletePolitically speaking, military spending is always a bargaining chip. For a developing country, this will mean less budget for political agendas.
DeleteThat is why all should watch closely what the government is doing. Make sure that politicians using the the people's plight to divert and/or hold military modernization be fully scrutinized on what is their real agenda...
Do you agree sir max? That our politicians do not really support our afp modernization because of huge money involve.DJ
ReplyDeletewe just better make sure that shill Binay doesn't end up being the President in 2016. if that happens, we're all fucking boned.
DeleteIf we still didn't get the refurbished C130s by the time the next super typhoon comes, these A400Ms would literally our butts. I can just imagine how much relief goods A400Ms can bring to Davao or Tuguegarao for example.
ReplyDeletePH response to Yolanda was just too painful to watch. Buy now, pay later --- that's my opinion on HADR equipment
Hi sir Max,
ReplyDeleteCongrats on your 2 Million views. This Blog is really informative and I always browse it everday to check your updates and other people comments.
This is kind of off topic sir. Can you create another blog about the summary of the current AFP modernization? Like what are projects on biddings, Awarded, schedule of the bidding and delivery. This will help us to have a summary status of our AFP modernization. Just like what you did last year on the year ender AFP modernization.
Thank you sir Max and more power and God bless us all!
ProudPinoy
Thank you ProudPinoy. There are several minor projects that were already completed that we do not have the actual details and numbers. Making an incomplete list is not really advisable, so let's see what we can do for this. Sources like the DND website's BAC page can be a good start.
DeleteEwan ko lang kung natatandaan nyo dati. Wala sa plaano yang Brand New Frigates, at karamihan sa atin ay kontento na sa Maestrale Frigate ng Italy.
ReplyDeleteAt sa lumang Coast Guard Cutters ng US.. then all of sudden.. Hala!!!...naisip ng mga magagaling na taga pagplano ng AFP.. kailangan pala natin nito...
para naman may laban at magdalawang isip yung mga nag bully sa atin.
Ang Point ko.. marahil hindi pa na-re-relaize ito ng mga karamihan sa atin.
Ang problema sa atin minsan eh masyado short sighted. Mag a-antay na naman ng susunod ng sakuna o wag naman po sana (bakbakan)bago kumilos..at marealize na kailangan ng ganitong capability.
Andyan yung magre-reklamo na walang suporta ang binibigay ang gobyerno.
Sasabihin naman ng Gobyerno...wala tayong kakayahan...
So ano resulta.. maraming namamatay...dahil sa delay ang tulong..o re-inforcement.
Nagmumukhang kawakawa tayo sa ibang bansa para tulungan tayo..
Minsan nakakahitya at nakakainis maging Pilipino kung alam mo yung problema at pag kukulang pero hindi ina-aksyonan..at gingawan ng solusyon..
Yung siguro dahilan kaya narito tayo sa kinalalagyan natin ngayon..
Alam nyo naman ang pinas eh taon taon dinadaan ng samot saring sakuna..at minsan pag na bi-bingo tayo na matindi... ang resulta na nito.
So sa mga detractors.. nito..tanungin mo sarili mo..kailang tayo maghanda-handa..
Antay na lang tayo dumating at titihaya na lang.. at mag mukhang kawawa?
- OFW
A400 For invading countries? come on.....it just shows how ignorant some of us are.
ReplyDeleteThe only diffence this plane with C130 is the carrying capacity and price tag. But they play the same Role.. "CARGO PLANE"
This is business guys..these countries don't care if we got bullied by China. Think about it..What is it to them?
what happens to the Philippines does not affect their Economy or way of life? Without the Philippines, life goes on to these country..
This is a MILITARY cargo plane just in case you did not notice. It can carry hundreds of troops and their equipment. If you want a cargo plane for revenue and peaceful purposes then there are many freighter versions of the large Boeing and Airbus jetliners that are available
Deleteyet it can still carry cargo and can be very useful in HADR ops WHILE DOUBLING as military transport at the same time. plus Mil-Spec equipment is far more robust than any civvie equipment.
Deletehitting two birds with one stone, if we do acquire it.
i dunno what's gotten your panties in a bunch.
But still by having this as an asset does not mean you can have a capability of invading a country? Do you agree?
DeleteYup, there are boeing and airbus jet liners that are available that can do the same thing..
The same reason why AFP and other Military's are using Humvee's...probably they should be contented in using commercial 4x4 vehicles for transport then, because they can do the same thing...
Off topic.....what is happening in our country are all work of china....paki kalat po....
ReplyDelete1.china order the assasination of benigno aquino junior in airport
2.the ousting of marcos is a brilliant work of china.
3The non renewal of clark air base and subic naval base are orchestrated by china
4The bataan nuclear power plant non operational is another brilliant work by china
5the refill of death penalty is the work of china why china run shabu cartel....
All popular presidential contender are all on chinese side....jejomar binay......manny paquiao recently trap by china on boxing training.school ploy in china.
we all hate China as much as any true-blooded Filipino out there but let's stick to reality, shall we?
Deletekindly cite some solid evidence first before you start mouthing off conspiracy theories.
Im just stiching chronological event start way back in the early 50s from pinoy soldier shaming chinese reds in korean war, the creation of cpp npa i think chinese communist zero in their scope on philippines long time ago...how can they achieve this first they need to remove marcos how......event needed to woke up pinoys....this should very big.....what...how.....answer....by assasinating benigno aquino junior.......after marcos china will work on removing US bases in philippines.....which they did.......china cannot allow philippine bataan nuclear power plant operational so once again they work on this mission which they succed....after that china get that ever they want from philippines. Spratly. Raw materials. Chinese shabu everywhere. Sky is the limit
DeleteI do not think that the Atlas is suitable for the Philippine needs.
ReplyDelete1) It is too expensive,
2) Too big, this plan is more suited for transcontinental flights than for local flights in this small country of ours.
3) We do not have much big run ways to accommodate this behemoth especially outside Metro Manila and Clark which is nearby.
4) Acquiring these planes will have a long learning curve for our air force personnel and the chance of crashing this very expensive plane is very likely.
I think we will be better off getting new C-130's if we can. They are not too big nor too small but just right for the PAF requirements and our people are some how familiar to them.
Adonis, contrary to your belief, the A400M can land in Pag-asa Island because it is a very large STOL aircraft. We also have to consider that the AFP may be looking at long range requirements for other purposes. Learning curve will not be as great as fighter planes, although it should be prepared for.
DeleteYes,you are right Adonis, I think 5 C-130 Hercules ($30.1M) or 3 C-130J Super Hercules ($51M) is better for the AFP than only 1 A400M Atlas ($152M) bec. the AFP can carry out 5 to 3 missions at the same time instead of just 1 mssion for an A400M.
DeleteOr a combination of 2 C-130 Hercules ($30.1M each) Transport Aircraft for short airstrips and 2 CH-53E Super Stallion ($25-45M each) Heavy Transport Helicopters not requiring airstrip landing is more practical.
Delete"is better for the AFP than only 1 A400M Atlas ($152M) bec. the AFP can carry out 5 to 3 missions at the same time instead of just 1 mssion for an A400M."
DeleteThat also means that you need two C-130s to do the job of one A400M, which translate into you needing two aircrews instead of just one, as well as the remaining support.
Roberts, the problem lies on money. Does the government have the $152 to buy either your suggested C-130J/CH-53 mix or a single A400M?
DeleteFrance offered an easy way for the PH to pay for the Altas, although this is only limited to the Altas. The US also offered defense assistance that could be used to acquire defensive weaponry or HADR dual use equipment, but not that big in a year ($30-50/year).
With the small amount the US offers yearly, don't you think its better for the PH to ask the US for warfighting equipment, while we use other ways to get HADR dual use equipment?
Updates on this blog:
ReplyDeleteMaxDefense refers its readers who are unfamiliar with the Airbus A400M aircraft to websites provided for further reading and familiarization. Please go to the update as of September 26, 2014. Thank you.
these fucking leftists never help with anything do they. all they do is fucking complain.
ReplyDeletefucking communists.
yes, i'm mad.
A400 will be a great help for AFP that is why I would like to recommend and support our President to procure this kind of Aircraft. A very useful one for calamity/typhoon ravage area like of yolanda, transport of troops and military vehicle that the Government and AFP must be proud of to operate this kind of Aircraft. I'm sure majority of Filipino will agree on this project. Go Go Go Mr. President and AFP !!
ReplyDeleteI remember PAF needs to purchase a couple of C130's aside from the existing one's that we currently have..Not sure though if they are getting new one's
ReplyDeleteI think by having 2x Atlas is like having 6x used C130H or 5 brand new C130J
By the doing the math. (The Price is just a guide)
A400M Atlas - $181,532,800 (2010 Price) x 2 = $363,065,600 - Brand New and Production
Some Comparisons:
More Range
Can Accommodate Oversize Payload
Can Land and Take off Short Runways
Can Function as Tanker for PAF's future MRF (Multi Role Fighter)
Can Fly Higher, and Faster (more fuel efficient?)
Brand New (Less Maintenance cost)
Service Life of 40-50+ years if fully serviced
Can be purchase at a very low interest rate that will span for (10 to 12 years?)
C130J - $70,370,000 (1996 Price) x 5 = $351,850,000 Brand New and in Production.
30% improvement on Range compare to the H variant due to using new Engines.
Can Only Accommodate Standard Payload the same as the existing ones (H and D variants)
Can Land and Take off Short Runways (due to using a new engine)
Can Function as Tanker for PAF's future MRF (Multi Role Fighter) (Modification cost will add extra cost for this) Although A400M will have more fuel capacity due to the size. (So can support more aircraft)
Can Fly Higher, and Faster (more fuel efficient?) comparing it the H variant, although A400M can fly more higher and more faster than this C130J variant.
Brand New (Less Maintenance cost)
Service Life of 40-50+ years if fully serviced
I doubt if we can purchase these at low interest rate. AFP will be force to pay deposit upfront, and the rest once production has begun.
Then the Cheaper Option
C130H - $62,000,000 x 6 = $372,000,000 (Could be cheaper because it used)
No longer in Production, So can only be bought used.
Limited Service Life left (Conservative estimate - 10 to 15 years left?)
Higher Maintenance cost, depending on the Age of the Aircraft, the older the more maintenance needed,
Some critical concerns if planning to go this path
Service Life Left
Increasing Maintenance Cost....
Not efficient
Safety concerns.(Note Remember this will carry 92+ passengers in some operations)
PAF's operational readiness will be affected. Due to old age, this aircraft will see more time in the depot in the long run, than flight time, then will eat more funds to maintain and take up more man hours to maintain it in flying condition.
There are a lot of available in the arms market being replaced and disposed due to the reason's above.
Again the above notes is just a guide to make everyone one here think before posting.
- PAUL (Filipino in Australia)
from dnd source A400M will be part of our quick deployment operations whether its for HADR operations, OFW repatration, mobile antship missile deployment, mobile airdefence , anti air missile short range and medium range.
ReplyDeleteIf approved. Not to mention as part of the proposed AFP Rapid Reaction forces composed of units from all major armed services.
DeleteI am not clear why you need rapid reaction forces to be carried by a large long-range cargo plane. The potential point of conflict is not more than 200 miles away. In most of those shoals and reefs -you could not even deploy more than 20 soldiers - not to mention the heavy fighting vehicles the A400m is designed to carry. The c130j can fly the length of our little country without refueling and can do most of the tasks mentioned above. Maybe I am missing something. Are we planning to bring the conflict 1000 miles all the way to Hainan Island ?
DeleteYou are missing something. These Rapid Reaction Forces that the AFP intends to build up doesn't only look at the Kalayaan Islands. It is designed to rapidly transport large amounts of troops and equipment to any part of the country in the shortest time possible, and probably do the same abroad should there be a need. This concept also applies to HADR.
DeleteAntonov An-70 is another alternative. They say Airbus copied it.
ReplyDeleteWith the production stalled, and the manufacturer's country of origin and the aircraft's biggest market technically at war, why do you think this is a better alternative than the A400M or even other equivalent aircraft like the C-130J?
DeleteI think the real reasons DND might decide to go ahead with the acquisition of the A400M Atlas aside from its heavy-carrying capacity is it is offered by France on a credit loan payable for several years and the worry that the incoming next president will not favor buying such an expensive transport aircraft.
ReplyDeleteYou have apoint Sir. I agree with you. That is why I am very supportive with the Aquino administration
DeleteWhat I really want from France, is the second Helicopter Carrier which is meant for Russia but I know it's too expensive and it's not going to happen. But who knows? maybe the French lose their minds and offer 'em payable in 50 years. LOL.
ReplyDelete- Neo
Neo, France has not yet cancelled the sale to Russia. Besides that, the PH can't afford to acquire, maintain, operate that ship. It's simply too expensive, too big (for now) and too advanced, and will require massive amounts of money to build up the crew, training, onboard equipment and helicopters, and escorts.
Deletea big impossible Mr.
DeleteI suggests that Phil government to grab this offer because we do not know kung hanggang kilan pa tatagal ang mga C130 nation.dj
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think? Take a look at the date of the article, and the lower left part of the article on the "PS" part.
ReplyDeleteoff topic: Why this newspaper Inquirer.net allow some non-sense comment with their headlines??? what kind of Media is Inquirer? Im so disappoint reading their news. Please see link below
ReplyDeletehttp://globalnation.inquirer.net/111633/ph-japanese-ships-to-conduct-naval-exercises-off-palawan
it's sad that a lot of our countrymen are pretty uninformed when it comes to these matters. they tend to fire off really retarded comments first before analyzing the entire thing.
DeleteAko boto sa A400
ReplyDeleteBakit?
San ka pa makakita ng offer ng brand new binibenta saiyo sa mababang interest?
May kamahalaan nga pero di mabigat ang bayaran.. parang loan lang yan sa bahay...mahay nga pero unti-unti mo huhulog-hulugan.
Kung ako sa AFP grab it while it is an offer. baka maging katulad yan ng FENEC Helicopter na di natuloy dahil makupad kumilos ang mga opisyalis natin.
lol i thought its true anyway thanks sir max and any clue as to when will the bidding for the 2 brand new frigates conclude? thanks
ReplyDeletelooking at your two latest post seems like new developments in the decision making at the AFP. These could be used transport equipment not only for HADR uses but military purposes as well. These could be used to improve our presence in Pagasa Island and the rest of West Philippine sea.
ReplyDelete