Wednesday, May 8, 2013

Proposed Designs Offered for the Philippine Navy Frigate Program 2013 (2nd part of several posts)


Earlier we analyzed a possible Philippine Navy frigate configuration based on the information released by the Philippine Department of National Defense (DND) and the Philippine Navy (PN) to public media outfits, for public consumption. We also used basic information based on ongoing frigate programs in the region.

Cost-wise & based on the dimensions released by DND, it appears that the Philippine Navy is pushing for a light frigate design rather than a full-fledged frigate. In conjunction to its released “Philippine Fleet Desired Force Mix”, the ship is more likely to fulfill the role of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) which does not require huge power requirements and large spaces like those of air warfare frigate designs. The requirement only calls for a platform with decent anti-ship & anti-aircraft capabilities, and although there was no specific direction made towards ASW for this program, the current thrust of the PN is towards the build-up of its ASW capability. Thus, the choice made by the PN is good enough as an alternative for the 30-year old Maestrale-class ships earlier offered by the Italian government.

MaxDefense sources indicate that there are actually several companies and countries that submitted their bids:


1. After losing the chance on the Maestrale deal, Italy is back in the game this time with Orizzonte Sistemi Navali's MOSAIC family. No specific model was named though but OSN has several models in the MOSAIC family that will suit to PN requirement.


Orizzonte Sistemi Navali's MOSAIC 2400 design
(photo taken from Orizzonte Sistemi Navali website)

2. South Korea's Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI) derivative of the Incheon-class frigate. So far the only design being offered that was confirmed by DND to the public


There are 2 options being offered derived from the Incheon-class design

3. Another South Korean company, Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) reportedly submitted an offer. Although it is not clear what design they offered, it appears that it is either a derivative of the DW-3000H frigate that won the frigate project in Thailand, or a derivative of their upcoming FFX-2 design. A speculation was also brought out that DSME might offer a derivative of their smaller DW-2000H frigate design should the PN budget not be enough for the DW-3000H & FFX-2 designs.


DSME's DW-3000H frigate design

4. Spain's Navantia was also named earlier by a DND source, submitting the Avante family. No word if Navantia submitted a design based on the large & expensive F100 family.

The Avante 2200 series from Navantia (Spain)

5. France' DCNS reportedly submitted an offer based on their Gowind family. The specific designed offered is said to be similar to the Royal Malaysian Navy's design although the submitted offer to the PN is less complicated and a bit smaller in size.


DCNS' Gowind design offered is smaller than Malaysia's SGPV

6. Surprisingly, Israel has submitted a bid using a derivative and highly modified version of the Israeli-designed Sa'ar 5-class corvette which was built by Ingalls Shipbuilding (now under Northrop Grumman). The reported version is considerably bigger and addresses a lot of issues they encountered with their own Sa'ar 5 ships. The offer is said to include a very considerable percentage of Israeli-made sensors and weapons systems to decrease the ship's overall price.


A modified and upsized Sa'ar 5 design was offered by Israel
(photo taken from naval-technology.com)

7. It is unclear if Israel made a joint bid with Korea for another Incheon-class derivative, with significant Israeli-made sensors and weapons systems, and based on the offer made by Hyundai for the Israeli frigate program. In such arrangement, MaxDefense believes that HHI will build the hull and Israel will provide the systems for integration.


An Incheon-class with Israeli weapons and sensor systems? Not bad...

8. No weapons bid will be complete without the Americans, and they are in full force in their offers. Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII) reportedly submitted the National Security Cutter derived PF 4921 frigate design and another derivative of the Israeli Sa'ar 5. Both are offered with mostly American-made weapons and mixed sensors systems which includes a 76mm Oto Melara Super Rapid naval gun, a VLS for ESSM, a Phalanx or SeaRAM CIWS system, a combination of six 25mm Mk. 38 Mod. 2 & 50-caliber gun mounts, two quad-pack Harpoon SSM, and a hull mounted plus towed array sonar system.

Huntington Ingalls' PF 4921 frigate design
(photo from M. Mazumdar)

9. Lockheed Martin offered the Multi-Mission Combat Ship family, which is where the USN's Freedom-class LCS was based. Although sources indicate that their offer is the most expensive and may not be suitable for the PN's budget.


Lockheed Martin's Multi-Mission Combat Ship family Reportedly being offered is the 118-meter design (middle)
(photo from Lockheed Martin website)

10. Another surprise was from Australia's Austal, using a highly modified, smaller and cheaper derivative of their Independence-class LCS. MaxDefense learned that the offer includes the possible construction of the ships in Austal's shipyard in Cebu, thus decreasing the cost further. 


The Independence-class LCS. Austal is offering a small cheaper derivative.
(photo taken from Wikimedia)

There were also reports that the British BAE Systems and a South African offer were made, but no further details were given. 

Reportedly the budget of Php 18 billion allocated for 2 ships is not yet final and may increase depending on the requirements, with the additional funds probably be coming from Fund 151 or discretion of the President himself. Also, there are talks that this would only be an initial order, and further orders may be taken depending on the financial capability of the Philippine government.

It's now up to the DND & Philippine Navy to decide on what they want as their future frigate, and if all goes well, the future of the PN seems bright.

135 comments:

  1. Go Navy! please pick the best suited ships for your operations and something that we filipinos can be proud for..

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  2. For your eyes only.

    I bet the AFP wont be avail of one single ship. Not this year nor ever. Its all just PR.. Thats how we go.. All words no actions.

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    Replies
    1. You think like that because you're like that! Pathetic!

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    2. Yes You realy Phathetic!

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  3. Replies
    1. Hope and pray for it. Hehe...

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    2. For me # 10 wise choice

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    3. Sana nga number 10 mapili para Philippine made, pagsisikapan ng mga kababayan natin yan dahil atin yan! talagang with pride!!!

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    4. The #10 design is only for Littoral, but cannot be used against warships. I think...

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    5. the #10 design is littoral means at the same time is a stealth type and have a lethal weapons and defense system as far as I know
      so therefore its perfect and much cheaper for it is home
      made with partnership of local Australian warship builders company in Balamban ,Cebu and I think those who confuse that we can , my answer we can do it here....

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    6. The # 10 design is littoral combat ship and the same time is stealth type this being classified as of having a lethal weaponry and defense system of course this ship
      perfect design for us , cause it is cheaper for it is homemade with Australian shipbuilding company so my answer is a perfect warship....

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    7. #10 Littoral Combat Ship is optimized for use against a swarm of small boats and not against medium to large enemy surface combatants. If any enemy navy sends a modern frigate the LCS would weep. It doesn't even have anti-ship missiles.

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  4. what is the current fleet by our navy?

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    Replies
    1. I cannot expalin too much here, but for basic information of the current Philippine Navy's assets, the article in Wikipedia entitled "List of Commissioned Ships of the Philippine Navy" is good enough. Thanks.

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    2. Hi Max Montero,

      Please join Modernized the Philippine Military Movement on Facebook.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/343072135746967/

      Cheers,

      Edgar

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  5. this is all on the drawing board and that's all it is a drawing.....

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    Replies
    1. Let us see....if our sources are right, this one's pushing through and maybe more.

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  6. We must choose something which is not similar to any navy ships in the region.

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    Replies
    1. Due to the international marketing of warships from different countries, there is a chance that the PN will get something similar, but not necessarily be the same.

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  7. Why do our officials insists brand new? If it would take years to acquire. Maintenance cost? By then we've lost if not all most of the contested areas. As what China is doing right now, this very minute! US wont even side with us! NEUTRAL is what they've said!
    6 billion pesos difference. Having maestrales compared to brand new ships. This means more funds available for addt'l FA-50′S or even F18 superhornets being auctioned by Australia. Our Air Force Men are not stupid, faced with the current situation, surely they will be able to adapt fast in learning how to fly these fighter planes. Maestrale that would be restored to zero status, with add ons, can immediately provide support and as per Sec.Gazmin,as if they're new. Available in a short period of time, for immediate deployment, w/ Italian navy experts to train our Navy personnel "HERE". Possibly while on patrol at the same time. Weapons intact. Even packaged w/ hundreds of APC's and Howitzers. Secured area,for our people, also means green light for addt'l gas explorations, more funds.Then you can now have brand new frigates.
    Italy has been at the forefront in support of our defense requirements, why turn your back on a friend? Just because new players joined in! Time is the essence. Not unless the brand new ships would be available as the maestrales would... Our beloved officials are indeed right when they opt to have brand new ships instead... ‘WE MIGHT END UP LOSING MORE!’.

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    1. Hi, we'll be discussing this later on when time is on my side. The PAF and PA will not be left behind, and with the security issues mounting against the Philippines, I expect more news coming in regarding your point. Thanks.

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    2. Thank you indeed for that. It was great reading your comments and infos, detailed when it matters,even way back before when you gave such informations regarding the status of our Navy's ship aquisition from BRP del pilar upto Maestrale to those concerned citizens comming fron Nigeria. Made me feel proud to have somebody from my country engage in a discussion with such professionalism. Hat's off to you. Ecstatic when I read your article "Why the Philippine Navy Dropped the Maestrale Class?" raising the same concern about the duration to acquire the much needed ships,considering the situation our country is currently facing. Please do find time in providing more updates and insights.

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    3. Other than getting immediately the 2 italian frigates and also their offer of 2 corvettes, the Philippine government must upgrade the weapons of the existing warships and patrol boats. Installing anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles will give our existing warships firepower to engage enemy ships and fighter jets. Putting MANPADS on our ships and patrol boats is also a good idea.

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    4. i agree with you, bago mabuo yung mga new frigates na yan, wala na yung spratly islands sa atin.

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  8. In my own point of view, Australia's Austal offer would be the best choice the PN have to choose, because it will give additional jobs to Filipino's in the Visayas and also it might be of lower price because it can be done locally and also it will give a good experience for the Filipino workers.

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    Replies
    1. Austal is only one of the countries that offer to have the ships built in the Philippines. Hyundai, Daewoo, Israel Shipyards, and ST Engineering reportedly are willing to have the some or all of the ships built in the Philippines.

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  9. Max, don't you think we need something in the interim? Case in point...this threat by the Taiwanese Navy to play in our playground will not happen if we have the likes of Maestrale to use to deter so that we are not bullied around by our neighbors. New builds are fine but that takes a long time. Cost effective? Well, we need frigates yesterday. How many more incidents do we need to accelerate the purchase? Maybe a good land based missile system also will be good.

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    1. Dagger straight to the heart! For the sake of arguement that the reason why negotiations on the maestrales bogged down is due to technicalities or the least of all possibilities...pricing,but unlikely for the gov't confirmed ships price are acceptable. Big question is what happened to the option of "COMPROMISE"??? In case our officials from the DND didn't noticed, we are being bullied left and right!!!! And they are SO HAPPY to announce finally we have 3 choppers to use in detecting intruding submarines, that would be available by next year! ANNNNND considering of adding 2 more!!! HUH????

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    2. Let's see what happens in the next few months. I am expecting some changes in procurement of warships that may include reconsideration for excess defense articles.

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  10. no.1 and no.10 are decent enough to secure our EEZ while small version of gowind family are more suited on littoral plus a heard that it have anti-sub capable too, anyway all ships here are capable to secure our EEZ it all depends on the budget...

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  11. I don't understand why the need to buy the ASW109 choppers,they could easily be blown-up even if it is flying on a high altitude,especially mentioned by PN that it is not equipped to fight but only to point the location of the sub.

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    1. The AgustaWestland AW-109 is reportedly chosen since it can fit the small telescopic hangar of the Gregorio del Pilar-class ships. All other ASW helicopters like the Eurocopter Panther, Sikorsky S-70/SH-60 Seahawk and AgustaWestland Wildcat AW-159 are too big for the hangar.

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  12. Helicopters bring a lot to the table for a frigate, especially since helicopters are not limited only to anti-submarine warfare. They can provide over-the-horizon targetting information via radar or even by visual confirmation; not to mention that it can be also used for SAR (search-and-rescue) purposes. A frigate with just two helicopters - even without weapons - is a much better patrol platform than one with the latest anti-ship or anti-air.

    Moreover, the stark reality of the Philippines Navy is that it is meant to be a patrol force - more to show the flag and chase off freighters violating territorial waters - than a serious fighting force (the Mutual Defense Treaty with the United States will pretty much deter any major combat threat).

    Having an ASW-centric frigate is a much more realistic goal that meshes well with its actual role. An ASW frigate - especially with helicopters - can patrol and monitor territorial waters against both surface and submarine vessels. By contrast, anti-air warships generally do not fair well against heavy air attack (just see the British losses during the Falklands War), and there has been no real deep-water surface-to-surface naval battle since 1945. It is aircraft - both carrier and land-based - that now dominate the anti-air and anti-surface role.

    With that said, I'm not too keen on the proposed PN force mix. It asks for too many ships of limited value (particularly the six anti-air frigates and over a hundred "patrol" vessels), while at the same time asking for too few aircraft.

    Maritime patrol aircraft, assuming they can be maintained properly and be kept in the air regularly, are generally more effective than patrol ships for monitoring large sea zones. Some, such as the US P-3 Orion, can also be equipped with anti-ship missiles should the need arise.

    - Zinegata

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    1. Zinegata, don't forget airborne early warning aicraft. The US will start to get rid of their E-2Cs. Another alternative is to mount an AN/APS-145 radar into another platform such as a C-130. We need a command and control platform to act as an air traffic controller and an early warning system for our surface and air platforms. You can also fit it with full motion video and IR cameras.

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  13. The PN should just buy ship hulls and add the weapons system later.

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    1. If you do that, then our lawmakers suddenly question the deals to buy ships that cannot fight, then you will have problems.

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    2. The thing is, ship-based weapons systems become obsolete rather quickly and are very expensive to refit and/or replace.

      Which is really a major reason why carriers (or in our case a helicopter frigate) are such good buys - it's cheaper to replace aircaft in case of obsolescence; and most new models are already capable of carrying a wide array of munitions. It's not as glamorous as saying you ship comes equipped with all sorts of weapons, but it's cheaper in the long run and more importantly, effective.

      At the most extreme, I would say that a frigate armed only with a cannon (for chasing off freighters or fishing vessels) but with sonar, radar, and the capacity to carry 2-3 helicopter for sustained operations is a much better long-term buy for the Philippines. The helos can do ASW and Anti-surface work, with the added advantage that you don't risk the ship (only the helicopter needs to get within weapons range).

      The only threat the ship can't deal with are anti-air threats, but I would not even be too concerned about it. The stark reality of a ship this size is that it can't carry an advanced SAM system which can deal with enemy aircraft (the only really effective ship-based anti-air systems require a DD-sized hull like the Burke, anything below that is a poor stopgap).

      Much better to just acknowledge that the ship must operate under aircover (either US aircover, or PAF air cover if we ever get the funds or the need)

      - Zinegata

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  14. Hey Max,

    Thanks for the blogs. It really encourages me to become one of the navy soon...

    Regards,
    Casper

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  15. Great we need all of them as soon as possible, make it real Pnoy !

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  16. kilan kaya darating ang mga to?lalo na yung fighter jet nabasa k kasi na plan ng pinas na bumili ng 12 T-50 from korea wish klang dumating this yer god bless philippines

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  17. plan; 1. priority radar and sensor suit plus asw sam land attack missile area defense like ciws naval chopper
    2. less priority hull design and engine specs and tonnages

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  18. With regards of choosing the warship builder, I will choose the Huntington Ingalls. This shipbuilder company already had built a lot of U.S. Navy destroyers. Besides, once they built the ship they will install also U.S. made Anti Ship Missiles and Surface To Air Missiles (Harpoons and Tomahawks) plus close in chain guns or the newest MK MOD III. Navigation and Radars also on par with the U.S. Navy since the design are the same with what the U.S. Navy have and the most important part, you can easily synchronize your Radars and Navigation equipment with the U.S. Warships. Though maybe the cost are more expensive but during actual shooting, I put my bet on the U.S. warship designs.

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  19. With regards of choosing the warship builder, I will choose the Huntington Ingalls. This shipbuilder company already had built a lot of U.S. Navy destroyers. Besides, once they built the ship they will install also U.S. made Anti Ship Missiles and Surface To Air Missiles (Harpoons and Tomahawks) plus close in chain guns or the newest MK MOD III. Navigation and Radars also on par with the U.S. Navy since the design are the same with what the U.S. Navy have and the most important part, you can easily synchronize your Radars and Navigation equipment with the U.S. Warships. Though maybe the cost are more expensive but during actual shooting, I put my bet on the U.S. warship designs.

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  20. One option that the Philippines can go to is Russia for Frigates, Corvettes and Submarine. Such as the Krivak-class frigate, Talwar-class frigate and Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate. For Corvettes, they can go with Steregushchy-class corvette, SIGMA Corvette or the Gowind class Corvette. For Submarines, Look to Russia such as the improved Kilo class SSK or the Lada, Amur class SSK. What the Philippines need is a credible National defense and they need to clean up corruption that hinders them from building a credible National defense. They should follow Ecuador or Peru on building a Credible Navy that is centered around a Multi Role Frigate, with corvettes, Patrol boats, Amphibs, Submarines and support ships.

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    1. Nicky, just curious, are you Russian? Yes, the PN was offered a lot from European, Asian and probably Russian sources. But the issue is not the supply but the client-buyer itself.

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  21. max, i think we are all agreed that building these brand new ships may really take a long, long while. the bidding process alone is a tedious task reserved only for the most patient individuals!

    there are talks, however, that the govt are reconsidering its position on acquiring second hand battle-ready naval assets as stopgaps until we finally commission our brand new frigates. the perrys are of course a big no-no because of budget concerns and since we are intending to build brand new assets, this just doesnt seem very wise in terms of budgeting our meager resources. but what about the cyclone class patrol vessels? any chance we can acquire these small, littoral combat ships from the US? i understand we already have one of these (BRP Mariano Alvarez). so, the technology wouldnt be too alien for our navy men. besides, the alvarez's sister ships are currently armed with stinger missiles.that can really pack a punch in the time being. is there a chance we can buy some of these vessels (maybe 2 or 3) from the US even though they're not bound to be decommissioned any time soon?

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    1. Right now there are no offers from the US for more Cyclones, although the Philippines appears to be given the first priority should the US dispose their remaining Cyclones for EDA FMS.

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  22. If only the Philippine navy will seriously consider medium size frigates, fast with a whole range of weaponry, to missiles, anti submarine capability and can cause considerable damage even to an aircraft carrier....:)

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  23. I would add advance early warning aircraft to the mix. Command and Control is essential when you have that many aircrafts, surface and subsurface combatants in one area. The US will be getting rid of their E2Cs in the near future. Or we can buy their AN/APS-145 radar and mount it on a C-130 or similar platform. Max, check out our website at http://www.spawar.navy.mil

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    1. Hi Leo. There is a plan for the PAF to get AEWC. But it currently not in the priority list for the short term. I believe the PAF is gunning for at least 1 aircraft.

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  24. Sa year 2017 pa raw ang purchase wala yan hindi na naman yan matutuloy pag palit ng another Admin sabihin na naman yan may corruption involved.

    Kung tagang tunay ang adhikain nila na makabili dapat ngayon na hindi sa next 3 years pa?

    Thats a stupid idiot idea of a leader giving the time when to purchase while his territory being abducted by foreign ivaders till 20 17 and how many year to spend for delivery is that not an idiot stupid idea?

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  25. Hi, we're doing this story on the battleships that the country currently have and based on your blogs, you seem to have extensive knowledge on each naval ship and their capabilities and you can discuss this matters with confidence. is there any way for us to get in contact with you? Thanks. Here's my email address: joyceplacino@yahoo.com

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    1. Hi Joyce. I believe you're also from TV5. Sorry I was not able to get in touch immediately. I believe Mr. Jose Custodio was able to give a very good answer for the show. Thanks for your interest on MaxDefense.

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    2. My suggestion subscribe in Jane's defense publication. This will also help you Joyce but it needs money because some is expensive publication and also, is a good reference. Am I right max?

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    3. For a general media company like what Ms. Joyce is in, it won't be worth it to subscribe to Jane's especially if they won't be covering non-Philippine military related issues. Too bad for TV5 and the rest but PTV-4 has its own access to Jane's, with one of their reporters also covering for Jane's in the Philippines.

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  26. if i where to decide i would choose 2X the ingalls pf-4921, 1 X daewoo DW-3000H, 2 x modified sa'ar 5 class for immediate show of force agaisnt china and taiwan.

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    Replies
    1. Why do you need different types of ships which will complicate logistics, maintenance, training and support? Why not just have a single design/class in numerous numbers?

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  27. Go for the full--pledged frigates. Do not settle for less. Always buy the top of the line. Let's have a pride.

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  28. Sayang mas kelangan naten skjold class fast attck craft ng norway dapat kasama din sa plano naten yan tsaka yung steruguchy corvette kaso russian made so malabo yan. For me hindi naten kelangan ng frigate destroyers or aircraft carrier dapat magsimula muna tayo sa mga small warships tulad ng mga missle boat and corvette syempre with support yan ng air force, sa air force sana dumating na yung mga korean made naten

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  29. Austal made in philipines are good, ang give more job for ppl of philipines. practical na,nakabigay pa ng trabaho sa Bayan.

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  30. Number 10 is better for now but can we have a contract with the israelis because i believe that their defense capabilities are better than any other nations because they are always at war

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    Replies
    1. Its not always the case. Israel's technology is proven, and supposedly cheaper than European or American tech. I believe there is already an ongoing negotiation with them with regards to the frigate project, as MaxDefense indicated in the blog.

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  31. Would somebody help me explain and answer to the question my 9 year old son raised about the issue: "If China is taking control(ref contested areas)of our waters,WHERE ARE WE TO USE OUR BRAND NEW FRIGATES?"

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    Replies
    1. Tell you son, China has not yet completely taken control of the contested waters, so there is still use for new frigates. Give your son hope that he will hold on to by the time he and his generation takes over our government, to keep the fight against aggression.

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    2. NAPASAKIT MAKITANG HANGGANG PAGMAMATYAG NALANG ANG KAYANG GAWIN NG ATING KASUNDALUHAN SA AYUNGIN SHOAL SA PATULOY NA PAG AKUPA NG BANSANG CHINA. HINDI DAPAT MANGYARI ITO. BAKIT KAILANGAN PA IDAAN SA PUBLIC BIDDING AT MAHABANG PAG UUSAP AT TRANSAKSYON ANG PROSESO NG PAG BILI NG MGA BARKO! KUNG MAARING DAANIN SA PAGITAN NG DALAWANG GOBYERNO ANG TRANSAKSYON PARA SA MABILIS NA PAG UUSAP. MISCHIEF REEF OCCUPATION NG CHINA, STAND OFF SA AREA NG ZAMBALES, 9 DASH LINE...HINDI PA BA SAPAT ANG PAHIWATI NA ITO PARA KUMILOS AGAD AT GAWIN ANG LAHAT NG MAKAKAYA PARA HINDI NA MAULIT PA...... CANCELED TALKS/PLAN THAT IS ON ITS "ADVANCED STAGE" "A DONE DEAL AS THEY SAY" WHICH IS TO PROCURE MAESTRALE WARSHIPS. AS EARLY AS AUGUST 2012 TALKS HAVE TAKEN PLACE....NOW WE HAVE THE AYUNGIN SHOAL OCCUPATION ANEW. DO WE REALLY NEED TO WAIT FOR THREE YEARS MORE JUST TO HAVE THE MUCH NEEDED EQUIPMENT? LOOK AT VIETNAM, ECONOMICALLY THEY ARE BEHIND PHILIPPINES, YET THEY GIVE SIGNIFICANT IMPORTANCE TO THE DEFENSE OF THEIR TERRITORY. OUR GOVERNMENT SUSPENDED THE PERMIT GRANTED TO THE COMPANY AUTHORIZED TO CONDUCT OIL EXPLORATION WITHIN THE REED BANK AREA...OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLORE AND FIND OIL....OPPORTUNITY FOR REVENUES...OPPORTUNITY TO EASE UP OUR DEPENDENCY TO OTHER OIL PRODUCING COUNTRIES....
      OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR FISHERMEN TO REAP THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE ON THOSE AREAS...OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES...SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL..HAVE A DECENT LIFE....DO WE REALLY NEED TO WAIT THREE YEARS MORE,,,,CONSIDERING THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT ON THE ACQUISITION OF THESE BRAND NEW FRIGATES. I DO HOPE IM WRONG AND PROGRESS IS BEING ACHIEVED AT THE BACK DOOR AWAY FROM MEDIA...AWAY FROM THE LIMELIGHT.

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  32. "A defense-industry source quipped: “A small 5 percent commission” translates to nearly a billion pesos, with the price up from P12 to P18 billion, doesn’t it? In contrast, the aborted deal with the Italians would have been totally a government-to-government sale, in which commission from the transaction would have been well nigh impossible."

    http://www.pinoyofwcommunity.com/2013/05/whats-reason-behind-presisdent-aquino.html#.Uad4f9JmiSo

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  33. I think philippines needs at least 2 more respectable frigates as soon as possible. It will be just for "show of force" to make our neighbors think twice before doing something stupid. Because honestly, if war starts today or next week or month, we cannot really defend ourselves unless our big brother USA intervenes. So this frigates is definitely as NOW basis. Then, we can think of a rational defense system that we can sustain and not bankrupt our economy. Have you guys thought of ASSYMETRICAL WARFARE? I still go for peaceful solutions of our regional conflicts. Peace. :-)

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    1. Peaceful means is definitely better for everyone. But the Philippines must be ready for the worse.

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    2. as the Romans said, 'if you don't want war, then prefer for war.' DETERRENCE SON!

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    3. Or re-phased;

      if you want peace ... prepare for war.

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  34. to Rock, who ever you are....
    Why don't you just seat back and wait for our PN, AFP and DND leaders plus the President to do their job to modernize our Navy....
    And do your part also as a Filipino, that is hope, plus pay your taxes to the government para nman kahit papano eh may maidagdag ang gobyerno sa pagbili ng mga gamit para sa PN and the rest of the AFP, hindi ka puro salita lang jan. gawin mo part mo kung talagang Pilipino ka din.....

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  35. to Anonymous May 31, 2013 at 1:52 AM
    ..saan gagamitin ang mga bagong frigates?.. eh para idefend and fight para jan sa anak mo in case of invasion or war.

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    1. to AnonymousJune 5, 2013 at 7:44 AM.SORRY BUT YOURE WAY, MUCH TO FAR BEHIND IN THINKING..THE KID'S IDEA IS BRAND NEW FRIGATES ARE TO ARRIVE IN TWO TO THREE YEARS TIME. AGAIN MISTER IN "TWO TO THREE YEARS TIME!" WE ALL WANT BRAND NEW, WHO WOULDNT? BUT JUST IN CASE YOURE NOT UPDATED WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION ON THE DISPUTED TERRITORIES..THE MOST RECENT, CHINESE VESSELS NOW OCCUPIES PART OF THE PHILLIPINE TERRITORY AT AYUNGIN SHOAL!!! SLOWLY THEY ARE
      OCCUPYING WHAT IS OURS!!!
      Below is the English translation of the recent Beijing TV interview of China’s Major General Zhang Zhaozhong of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), which was published in the May 28, 2013 issue of the China Daily Mail. In this remarkable interview, General Zhaozhong openly and candidly discloses China’s strategy to recover all the “Chinese islands and reefs illegally occupied by the Philippines”.

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    2. Gen. Zhang Zhaozhong: “What should we do about those islands and reefs? I think that in the main we have done some things relatively successfully in dealing with the Philippines. Since the 1990s, the Philippines has done quite a few illegal and irrational things in its attempt to turn the Huangyan Island (Panatag Shoal) into its territory by means of presidential order, domestic legislation, and so on.
      Each time our Ministry of Foreign Affairs protested, but it refused to listen. In the meantime, it was busy doing this and that, such as sunk a boat there and conducting lots of patrols there. By April, 2012, an incident finally took place that it took initiative to detain Chinese fishermen by force; it sent troops to detain at gun point the Chinese fishermen who entered the lagoon to carry out normal fishing.
      Since then, we have begun to take measures to seal and control the areas around the Huangyan Island, seal and control continuously up till now. In the over one year period since then, there have been fishermen in the inside. Our fishermen are often there because there is lot of fish there. Fishermen go there in large ships and then sail small boats in the lagoon to fish. They can have shelter in the lagoon when there is a typhoon.
      The fishermen conduct normal production there. In the area around the island, fishing administration ships and marine surveillance ships are conducting normal patrols while in the outer ring there are navy warships. The island is thus wrapped layer by layer like a cabbage. As a result, a cabbage strategy has taken shape.
      If the Philippines wants to go in, in the outermost area, it has first to ask whether our navy will allow it. Then it has to ask whether our fishery administration ships and marine surveillance ships will allow it. Therefore, our fishermen can carry out their production safely while our country’s marine rights and interests as well as sovereignty are safeguarded. Is that not satisfactory?
      We can adopt this method elsewhere. We have not resorted to war and we have not forced the others to do anything, have we? You have invaded and then left. You have violated Chinese law and China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, haven’t you? Why did you point your guns at our fishermen? As you have first violated the law and pointed your guns at our fishermen, you would never be allowed to enter the area.
      We should do more such things in the future. For those small islands, only a few troopers are able to station on each of them, but there is no food or even drinking water there. If we carry out the “cabbage” strategy, you will not be able to send food and drinking water onto the islands. Without the supply for one or two weeks, the troopers stationed there will leave the islands on their own. Once they have left, they will never be able to come back.

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    3. For many things, we have to grab the right timing to do them. Over the past few years, we have made a series of achievements at the Nansha Islands (the Spratly Islands), the greatest of which I think have been on the Huangyan Island, Meiji Reef (Mischief Reef) and Ren’ai Shoal (Ayungin Shoal).
      We have gained quite satisfactory experience about the ways to recover the islands and reefs and defend them. For the Nansha and Xisha (Paracel) Islands, we have established Sansha City to administrate them. That was a good step we have taken.
      The next step will be the strengthening of power and authority in implementing our law in conduct our administration. The further next step shall be the vigorous development there, including the development of economy, tourism, marine fishery and marine protection.
      We have to do much more work there, and coordinate various efforts. We should not rely only on military effort. In the military perspective, fighting is the last resort while before it there must be production on a large scale and with high enthusiasm and large-scale production on the sea. That is why I say that we have to create such an environment and atmosphere.”
      Well, there you have it, straight from the mouth of China’s foremost military expert, General Zhaozhong. Soon, he predicts, China will be bringing in tourists from the Sansha City prefecture to visit Mischief Reef, Scarborough Shoal, Ayungin Reef, and all the other “Chinese islands and reefs illegally occupied by the Philippines” some for centuries, all now liberated from those “rude and barbarian” Filipinos.
      http://globalnation.inquirer.net/76323/chinas-cabbage-strategy-to-recover-chinese-islands-reefs-illegally-occupied-by-ph

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    4. AND WHOEVER YOU ARE AnonymousJune 5, 2013 at 7:44 AM,
      YOURE SO WILLING TO WAIT FOR THE BRAND NEW FRIGATES IN THREE YEARS TIME! COMPARED TO HAVING DECENT SECOND HAND WARSHIPS WHICH CAN BE ACQUIRED IN A MUCH SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME! WHICH CAN SERVE AS STOP-GAPS. AND IMMEDIATELY PROTECT AND DEFEND WHAT IS OURS! THATS THE IDEA OF THE KID FROM THE PREVIOUS COMMENT.

      "AnonymousJune 5, 2013 at 7:44 AM, TOTOY, PAPAANO IDEDEFEND ANG TERRITORYO NA WALA NA SA CONTROL MO? SABIHIN MO SA CHINA NA KUNG PWEDE MAGHINTAY MUNA SILA NG TATLONG TAON BAGO SAKUPIN ANG TERRITORYO NATIN!!!" KAYA MO SILA ITABOY/PALAYASIN SA BAGONG FRIGATES TO BE ACQUIRED IN THREE YEARS!!! SAMPUNG MISSILES NA SABAY SABAY NILANG PALILIPARIN ANG KATAPAT NYAN!!!

      OUR MAIN GOAL IS FOR THE DEFENSE OF OUR TERRITORY WHILE WE STILL HAVE THEM.

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    5. I completely agree, in three years time without having atleast a "MINIMUM CREDIBLE DEFENSE ARMAMENT" most of the disputed territories would be by then occupied by china. and it would be more difficult for us to have them back.

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  36. Hi max i dnt understand why dnd is buying expensive frigates mga 300mil to 500mil unit cost ng frigate. Instead of buying these frigate bakit hindi nalang fast attack craft like the skjold class of norway its much cheaper 50mil per unit, bili tyo ng maraming ganyan so we can protect yung mga islands naten instead of frigates

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    Replies
    1. Hi Capt "Jack Cole" (nice), the PN need large ships because of their ability to stay longer at sea, longer range, survive high sea states which are common in our EEZ, and its ability to survive in battle. FAC and patrol boats do not have those, and as experiences of other powers in previous wars, they do not have the capability to defend themselves well from incoming missiles or aircraft. So even if the frigates are expensive, the PN need a lot of them.

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    2. Max, but it seems that AFP is presently putting all their money on PN. Combat aircraft should also be on NOW basis and a respectable air defense system. Without these in place, our frigates will be sitting ducks for the chinese 3rd generation combat aircraft given that they already have their first aircraft carrier. I know that this will be expensive but losing 1 or more limbs (islands) will be more painful. - jamz

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    3. Jamz, the navy is in need of more budget since they are at the forefront of the defense of the Philippines. It is logical at this point to give the navy the highest priority. Yes, aircraft is also needed but compared to ships, aircraft cannot be present at conflict / contested areas for long period of time. Aircraft also cannot catch poachers, illegally entering fishermen, and go toe-to-toe with Chiense government and military vessels. Don't lose hope for the PAF yet, they will be getting what they need as well. MaxDefense will be posting some "juicy" information on PAF acquisition plans in the future.

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  37. Max, thanks for your excellent writings on the subject of upgrading the AFP in order to prevent the Philippines from being shoved around too much by China. I actually think it is great that the DND is going for new frigates instead of used ones. It makes much more sense to me, especially since the build time of some of these frigates won't be much longer than the refurbishment time for used ones and operating cost will be far lower if they are at least partially built in the Philippines and then repaired and maintained in Philippine shipyards. Furthermore, it seems like a buyer's market right now and it is quite possible that some really good deals on quality new frigates could be made at this time.

    I still think the best bang for buck would be provided by getting two Danish Iver Huitfeldt frigates/destroyers(pound for pound currently the best value high power warship worldwide, imo), but if the Philippine budget only allows for light/medium frigates, so be it. What's important right now is that the Philippines gets a credible presence in its waters a.s.a.p. while making sure that the future operating costs will be as low as possible plus, if possible, securing partial local manufacture. If the Philippines wants to be a real thorn in deflating Chinese bullyism, it will have to be smart and ensure that it acquires good capabilities while limiting future operating costs as much as possible. I think it can be done, and I am actually liking a lot of the dnd acquisition decisions so far.

    I must say I'm kind of surprised that the Dutch Damen Sigma class light frigates are not on the list, as they also provide a good value and have a short build time. They've played a huge role in the modernization programs of both the Moroccan and Indonesian navies.

    If the Thai Navy is getting the DW3000h, then that may be a good choice, too. The Thai Armed Forces have been making a lot of smart moves lately in their modernization program( JAS Gripen squadron and integrated air defense, Thai-built high-grade HTMS Krabi OPV) and the Philippines would do well to see what they can learn from Thailand's success in upgrading their defense systems.

    Laurence

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    Replies
    1. Hi Laurence. Sad to say the Dutch have not really offered anything due to our limited relations to them. This is also the same for the Germans. What hampers the DND & PN right now is budget. With what they allocated, I can't even be positive on a lot of the options MaxDefense brought out. The DW3000H is interesting but with the Thais quoting them above $400M per ship....

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    2. The budgetary restrictions are why I am so surprised not to see the Sigma on the list. It is a proven, economical, modern, and effective design that the Philippines can afford and that could make for decent flagships in the 105 meter version. That the Moroccan navy managed to rapidly upgrade its fleet with the Sigma, that the Indonesian Navy keeps ordering them again and again, and that the Vietnamese are now also getting 4 of them speaks volumes. Imo, the Philippine Govt. needs to think outside of the box here and make a direct request for a proposal from Damen.

      The Mosaic Family that you have listed above also seems interesting, since it seems to have adopted the intelligent, cost-saving modularity approach seen in both the Sigma Class and the Iver Huitfeldt Class.

      Whatever build is chosen, I just hope the Philippines gets two quality flagships that have low operating costs and are capable of leading a decent-sized fleet of OPVs that will hopefully be built in the Philippines.

      Laurence

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    3. The Philippine government does not have very close ties to the Netherlands, probably one reason why Damen Shipyard's SIGMA family was not offered (still verifying this though). Also, the SIGMA is not really cheap as well.

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    4. That shouldn't be a hindrance, though. I doubt that Vietnam had close ties to Holland, yet they're getting four Sigmas. The more I look into this issue, the more I see that the the only way for the PN to have a credible naval defense that can stand up to China in the long run is to have low-cost, modular, quality opv's and frigates built in the Philippines and the most successful programs in doing that for countries with comparable means to the Philippines are with the Fassmer OPV in South America and the Damen Sigma Class in Morocco, Indonesia, and Vietnam.

      If one instead throws together a bunch of different new and used designs and hulls from all kinds of different sources, on the other hand, it is going to cause interoperability problems and can lead to unsustainable operating costs in the long run.

      Vietnam actually is probably getting the most bang for their buck. I didn't realize it before, but they've managed to already build some quality Damen-designed DN 2000 opv's for their coast guard, and they're managing to do it fast, at a pace of 4 in a 4 year period. This shows that one can rapidly get quality ships in the water, even if they are new builds that are built in country. And the tech transfer and experience gained with this model is invaluable. If Vietnam can do it, the Philippines sure as hell should be able to, as well.

      And now Vietnam is doing something similar with the Sigma Class, with the first two being built by Damen and the last two being built in Vietnam. Since Vietnam is in a similarly hostile naval situation in regards to China(worse, actually), the Philippines might want to emulate them in regards to the fast upgrading of their fleet with high-quality, new build ships.

      The Sigma aren't really expensive as far as new frigates go. The most expensive versions are the "heavily armed" 105 meter versions, which come in at 230 to 250 million us dollars in total, so that's basically within the price range that the Philippines can afford. And their operating costs are just about the lowest of any frigate, lower than those of Chinese frigates.

      Here's a link to some rundowns on warship costs. The numbers there aren't all accurate(Iver Huitfeldt price on list is much higher than actual cost, for example), but it's a list that also shows operating costs and the listing for the Sigma is accurate, from what I know:

      http://nationsdawnofanera.weebly.com/-frigates.html

      I still want to see the Philippines have an Iver Huitfeldt Class heavy frigate/destroyer as flagship, but the Philippines would, indeed, have to increase the acquisitions budget in able to afford that in addition to the two light frigates that are going to be purchased.

      Laurence



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  38. Addendum to previous post:

    Speaking of the Thai OPV program... imo, just as important, or even more important, than the frigate purchase will be the Philippine decisions about OPV's. Since ocean-going OPV's are increasingly taking over from the traditional role that corvettes held, this will be one of the most critical building blocks of a modern Philippine navy. Any quality, modern opv can chase off the militia and coast guard type ships that the Chinese are currently primarily using to bully the Philippines and the OPV program will be a huge opportunity for the Philippine Navy to get a credible, flexible, modern, numerous ship presence in the water for a comparably low cost. Not only could these opv's replace the Hamilton Class Cutters when they get too old and banged up in 10 to 15 years, they could also serve as flagships for the coast guard and, on the higher end, be designed as war ships similar to corvettes for operations with the navy's flagship frigates. The Philippines could urgently use at least 6 to 8 of these and, if it plays its cards right, every single one could be built in the Philippines. Quite a few navies with limited budgets have moved towards using OPV's effectively, such as the New Zealand Navy with the Otago/Protector Class, the Thai Navy with the high end River Class, the Dutch Navy with the Knud Rasmussen class, and the Colombian and Chilean navies with the Fassmer OPV80. And even in their high end military configurations, 6 to 8 of these, built in the Philippines, would likely cost less than two adequately armed light/medium frigates.

    Personally, I had been most intrigued by the prospect of a Philippine-built version of the Otago/Protector Class, but recently came across the new Fassmer Naval OPV, which seems really interesting and pretty much a perfect fit for the needs of the Philippine Navy.

    Whatever happens, solid, modular systems are key both for reducing purchase price and for later reducing operating costs, and I am glad to see that the dnd is paying attention to that.

    Please keep up the good work, Max. I am enjoying your blog and look forward to you writing about the opv upgrade program in future.

    Laurence







    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Laurence, that's the problem, the use of PN OPV to chase Chinese coast guard ships. With the current Chinese style of using civilian "white" ships to push their power in the WPS, having the PN use any ship (OPV, corvette, frigate, etc) would give them a reason to use their Navy to back them up as well. That's exactly what happened in Scarborough Shoal that's why BRP Gregorio del Pilar left the scene and passed the responsibility to the PCG. This is the reason why MaxDefense advocates the PCG to have larger OPVs, and that the government should provide the PCG more legal power, increased budget and enough independence from DOTC, enlarge the organization and manpower as well to have the capacity to operate more and larger ships, and proper basing. But this is a major stumbling block as well since the Philippine government is not giving both the armed forces and coast guard enough funding to enlarge and increase capability.

      Hopefully MaxDefense will touch the issue of OPV's in the future.

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    2. For OPV is part of the fleet force mix of the Philippine. We need a platform who is capable and really do passive surveillance. Is a matter of strategy and doctrine.Always remember a philosophy that it must have a forward first hand positive information before deploying a high value platform. It is part of Intelligence gathering, Surveillance and Recon concept of operation which is the function of OPV on surface platform in high seas! Am I right max.

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  39. That right there is some good advice for the Philippine Govt. I bet that just two lightly armed Coast Guard OPVs of any of the opv ship classes that I mentioned above would mean a huge improvement for the Philippine Coast Guard.

    Hopefully the deal for the 12 coast guard ships from Japan will go through soon, as those ships would plug a critical capability gap, especially the 2 larger ships.

    The manner in which the Philippines is currently being outsmarted/bullied by the Chinese also adds weight to my assertion that the OPV program actually is the most critical aspect of the whole modernization program, as a modular OPV ship system built in the Philippines could provide a range of very affordable ships that could be used as coast guard ships armed just with guns and water cannons in their simplest form to lightly armed navy corvettes with more capabilities in a medium strength build to a stretched build that would resemble a heavy corvette/light navy frigatte.

    Imo, the Philippine govt. has a huge opportunity here to do some trailblazing, much like the Danish Navy did with their newer ships and the Stanflex system and/or the Colombian, Chilean, and Argentinian navies are significantly upgrading their capabilities by having the inexpensive and flexible Fassmer OPV80 built in their respective countries.

    I do hope that the Philippine DND is reading your blog and paying attention to the advice that you are giving.

    Laurence

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    Replies
    1. The PCG definitely needs more ships and men on its organization. The current budget allocated to the PCG by the government through DOTC is insufficient to make the expansions and modernization. I do hope ex-PN man Sec. Jun Abaya will take care of modernizing the PCG.

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    2. There's interesting news out today that France's loan for ro-ro ports will be diverted to acquiring new, French-built ships for the PCG, one of which is said to be an 82 meter OPV. Seems like your hope is not unfounded.

      Laurence

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  40. Hi Max, Austal's bid is good. It would be better if it has the same low radar cross section (RCS) hull form as the USN's LCS-2 USS Independence-class. It is said that the LCS-2's trimaran hull form can allow flight operations up to sea state 5 and able to sustain high speed runs during high-sea state due to its wave piercing hull design.
    However, what particular type of vessel does the PN or HDP (Hukbong Dagat ng Pilipinas) needs? In my opinion, it should be an anti-surface warfare ship armed with anti-ship missile with respectable anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-air warfare (AAW) capability.
    The space for modular mission package can be used to accommodate ASW torpedo tubes and VLS for short-ranged SAM to bolster its anti-submarine and anti-air warfare capabilities. Moreover, the ship's armaments should be within HDP's logistical capability like the Oto Breda 76mm/62cal Super Rapid.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The problem with Austal's bid is the pricing, although part of their offer is to build the hulls in Cebu. That way labor cost would definitely be lower than those made abroad. Still verifying if Austal's bid includes a technology transfer or offsetting through investments in the Philippine economy.

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  41. did singapore made an offer??

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    Replies
    1. Yes, ST Marine offered its Next Generation Frigate design. The Philippines was one of the first markets to be offered with this new design.

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  42. No more news about the New frigates at of the day this would be cancel.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No news does not mean no movement.

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  43. At the end of the day it's gonna boil down to who's gonna bid the lowest...most likely we will be getting new frigates from South Korea or Israel or mixed...the italian frigate looks really nice though...new frigates will take so much time to build so I totally agree with the other guys here that we need interim frigates and maestrale would have been capable enough to do the job done, I really do hope that DND would reconsider...

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    Replies
    1. I hope the Philippine government will reconsider increasing the AFP Modernization Budget since Php 75 billion is not really enough.

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    2. You are right max, to have a defense and deterrent posture base on the US study our country must allot 2.5 to 3 % of our GDP.

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  44. Its not who will bid the lowest price....its who will provide the biggest share for RETIREMENT! SAD... BETRAYAL OF PUBLIC TRUST!

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  45. I will choose the one will give the cheapest price for ammunition ^_^

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  46. sir here are some of the bidders that will join the Frigate competition according to lattest report.

    "For the Navy, the government will acquire two frigates worth P18 billion to improve the military’s maritime defense capability. Manalo said at least five companies from South Korea, Spain, Australia, and Singapore have expressed interest to join the bidding. He said they include Hyundai, Daewoo and Navantia and Austal."

    http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/07/03/961173/afp-modernization-include-bases-upgrade


    1. Hyundai(SK)
    2. Daewoo(SK)
    3. Navantia(Spain)
    4. Austal(Australia)
    5. ST Engineering (SG)

    If all goes according to plan I wish Austal win because they already have a shipyard in Cebu and the MRV-80(Probably longer than this) have a lot of potential specially the one they present in EURONAVAL in 2012 and 2013 with 76mm gun, 16 VLS, AShM, RAM and it have CEAFAR Radar system. they only need to extend it little more to 100+ meter.

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  47. until now they dont decide yet which fragate they will purchase only plan forever.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. relax man...just wait..the bidding has been announced already...

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  48. THE bidding has anounced check this>>http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/07/31/1035141/navy-open-bidding-brand-new-warships

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    Replies
    1. It's just one of those premature press released by the DND. No schedule yet if when will the bidding proceed.

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    2. its only a plan that will dis appear after noynoy term. we will never see in our lifetime a true and credible navy as long as our corrupt official n general are there there is really no hope in modernizing our afp, god help the philippines!!!!

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  49. sejong warship from korea is my choice

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  50. I'm gone tο tell my little brother,
    that he should also pay a quiсk visit this weblog on regular basis tо get
    updated fгom latest rеports.

    My weblog :: deratyzacja wadowice

    ReplyDelete
  51. I would select the Incheon or the Austal Class para naman less cost na din. 3rd option is Incheon with Israeli made sensors. I believe Israeli mades are at par with their US navy counterparts. Furthermore, I think they should get AEWC planes.

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    Replies
    1. I agree with you, Israeli made are cheaper than US made though same quality or same performance. For the AEWC I prefer the IAI Eitam CAEW ng Israel.

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  52. Kung sa Defense na lang ilagay ang pondo sa PDAF o "Pork" kahit papano makakatulong ito sa acquisition ng bagong hardware para sa AFP. Saka marami naman choices ang AFP, kung may plano silang bumili ng gamit, daanin natin sa bidding tulad ng ginagawa ng DND ngayon.

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  53. its better to have one from israel and the second from Australia's Austal Cebu Filipino Made.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It would be better to get multi-purpose ships capable of AShW, ASW, AAW than get the LCS-based ship from Australia. The LCS is already small in size, and is only optimized for use against small boats (ie. pirates). If it comes up against any modern frigate of the same size it would be outmatched. It does not even have anti-ship missiles.

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  54. we could buy 4 or 5 of these instaed of 2 . Just look at how much money the PDAF and Dap have.. Pitiful philipines .. these warships will just be destroyed by Chinese submarines nd they wouldnt even know what hit them

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  55. how bout make your own naval power now thats self reliance

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  56. Hi Max, anymore updates?

    I hope the government did pursue on the 2 maestrale class frigate, then put the excess budget from 18b pesos to R&D of the philippine navy. The govt should push LOCAL shipyard to not like austal or any other foreign shipyard here, filipinos are not new in terms of ship building, actualy filipinos are good at it, thats why large foreign shipbuilders invest here plus low labor plus government incentives. I hope we could make venture with israel with it, cause i think israel's weapons are built mostly for purpose not for income. Am just worried of what will be its impact on arab nations.
    Btw, ommit littoral offers, we need offshore vessel, and theres already issues of hull problems with that littoral vessels.

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  57. Support local shipbuilders, local engineers, scientists and laborers, we should have focused on those 2 used maestrales, and make it a basis of future local ship design for the the next 2-5 years, btw after we create our own frigates, we can retire the maestrales and put its armaments on the new ones.

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  58. THIS IS IT! the one stop site i need. big thnks for creating this site. Like any concerned filipino worried about the external threrats we face i used to spend a lot of time searching the internet on what the country needs to defend itself. thanks Max! Lahat andito na pati mga specs and pros and cons of our options from a filipino view, with particular emphasis on what we can afford with "minimum credible defence" in mind.

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  59. THIS IS IT! the one stop site i have been looking for!. as any concerned filipino worried about the threats we face i have spent quite a lot of times in the internet on how we are going about defending ourselves. this site is perfect complete with pictures , specs, pros and cons of possible options with a filipino view, not just some biased site trying to market their hardware on us. I particularly like the emphasis on cost yet keeping in mind the minimum adequate defence posture we need. Mabuhay ang Maxdefence! MABUHAY

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    Replies
    1. I hope my comment will be published. I have attempted three times to make my comment for my technical analysis but it was not publish. Request

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    2. May I know what exactly is your post's content? Mostly I don't publish those that are obviously spams or using the blog for marketing purposes.

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  60. Strategically speaking do our leaders in the armed forces have considered the future threat: hypersonic ICBM threats with nuclear warhead, 5th generation stealth fighter with supersonic speed and weaponry, 3rd and 4th generation of submarine with ICBM and anti-ship missiles, laser and rail guns, mine warfare (wherein the frigate technical specs has no capability for mine countermeasures), electronic warfare, cyberwarfare for security on CMS, well secured information systems, low orbit satellite with weapons, smart and guided bombs and cluster bombs and battle space in electromagnetic spectrum. These threats will need a common joint operational pictures in joint operational theatre of naval warfare. I hope our decision makers will make a right decision for the warfighting capability of frigate to defend our country. Other for of threats a torpedoe in excess of 50 knots speed this technology is being developed by Russia, India, or even china.

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  61. Really, a real and expert analyst had experienced on real warfare, intelligence and extensive exposure on war. If you only do research through papers it will not be 100 hundred percent sure. Or do you have an extensive cooperation with leading and experts in the defense industries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Obviously from your post below this one, you're just fishing for info about MaxDefense. If you don't want what you read here, you are free to go and block MaxDefense from your life.

      Delete
  62. It seems that the maxdefense is a regular subscriber of the Jane's defense publication where his thoughts and ideas came. Am I right?

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    Replies
    1. Wrong. What's the use of MaxDefense if all it does is echo Jane's? Although IHS Jane's is a well respected defense publication and is being used by militaries, governments and analysts worldwide, there are information that are not provided to them, and they cannot publish information that are not formally passed to them by the AFP. Meanwhile, MaxDefense gets its info from many sources, and does not follow the same standards as Janes or any other commercial defense publication because we are free (MaxDefense doesn't ask people to pay for what they read here). See the difference?

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  63. Naval warfare, Land and Conventional Warfare, and Air Warfare these warfare needs a common joint operational picture in battle theatre with Navy, Air force and Army for joint command operation. Is a long way planning for our Armed Forces! Go AFP

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    1. Costly, and timely. Difficult, but attainable. Will definitely need more time and money (aka support) from the government to attain an effective defense force for the country.

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  64. Been 2 years already,yet we do not know who is the supplier of the 2 buildings,Why they are so slow of purchasing these frigates,please make it faster. Maybe the people sitting there do not the real situation in west philippine sea. We must protect now our natural resources, Sabagay pinabayaan nga ninyo yung black sand dyan sa Zambales.

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    Replies
    1. To be fair to the navy, the entire process is faster than what other countries faced in their frigate procurement projects. It just happen that the PN is in dire need for ships and has threats everywhere, making the entire process look slow. But don't despair, the project is going smoothly and we'll see some important milestones within midyear.

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  65. I think what we need now, are ships that we can deploy right away while waiting the 2 new frigates which will come 3 to 4 years time. We need now even 2 frigates which are heavily armed just like what the Italians have offered to the Philippines.In 4 year time we can still find the amount intended to the new frigates.I have seen those chinese fishing boats,they are plenty in east china sea and in west Philippine sea and they are armed ,we need ships now to counter this poachers.

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