Friday, August 22, 2014

Upgrades for the Philippine Navy's Gregorio del Pilar-class Frigates on the way

The Philippine Navy is expected to proceed with the upgrades for their Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates soon, with the program already more than a year delayed. The program will be divided into several scopes, but major emphasis will be given on up-arming the ships and providing them with a reasonable surveillance and detection capability.


The two Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates of the Philippine Navy during naval exercises with the US Navy.
Photo taken from the US Navy via Wikipedia.


There are earlier indications from MaxDefense sources that the separation of the new frigate weapons acquisition from the original frigate acquisition project can closely be attributed to other weapons system requirements of the PN. This includes the upgrade for the Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates and other weapons systems for upcoming PN naval assets.

Currently, the lead ship BRP Gregorio del Pilar (PF-15) is better armed compared to its sistership BRP Ramon Alcaraz (PF-16), which as of this writing is headed to Northern Australia to participate in the bi-annual KAKADU 2014 exercises. Compared to the PF-16, the PF-15 is armed with a single Mk.38 Mod. 0 chain gun, positioned where the Phalanx CIWS was previously located. It is also armed with two 20mm Oerlikon guns, which the PF-16 currently lacks.


Weapons Systems:
Latest information from the Philippine Navy suggests that the BRP Gregorio del Pilar will undergo the 1st phase of the up-arming program, which is to install two (2) BAE Mk. 38 Mod. 2 MGS (Machine Gun Systems), one each on the port and starboard midship decks. The Mk.38 Mod. 2 MGS is a remote-controlled weapons system mounting the 25mm M242 auto cannon, with a 2.5km range to defend the ship against small, fast surface threats. Although this can be considered as a Close-in Weapons System (CIWS), it is not designed to shoot fast aircraft and incoming anti-ship missiles like the Phanalx. 


The BAE Mk.38 Mod.2 25mm MGS are to be installed on the Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates, and probably with other upcoming naval assets.
Photo taken from Wikipedia.


The gun systems are reportedly now with the PN, and were originally planned to be installed on the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, but the decision to shift to the leadship was made by the PN leadership. Any plans to install the same weapons to the PF-16 means that the PN would made an order with the US government, possibly under the US Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program similar to how the 2 earlier guns were acquired. No definite new orders were made yet, although MaxDefense expects the PN to acquire not just 2 MGS, since the upcoming new frigates and Strategic Sealift Vessles (SSV) requires similar systems as well. A bulk buy might be the course for the PN.

MaxDefense sources also confirmed that the PN is "strongly interested" in acquiring the Raytheon Phalanx CIWS for the Gregorio del Pilar-class an "a number of other ships". The Phalanx is the US Navy's premier short range hard kill system against anti-ship missiles and aircraft, and uses a 20mm 6-barrel M61 Vulcan gatling gun. It is the best CIWS system that can be fitted to the Gregorio del Pilar-class, as they were previously armed with this one each, but was removed as it was not part of the deal between the Philippine and US governments for the transfer of the ships to the PN. The Phalanx does not require lengthy deck penetration works, allowing for easy installation and avoid costly modifications.


The Raytheon Phalanx mutli-barrel CIWS is eyed by the PN for its major naval assets.
Photo taken from Wikipedia.


The PN's decision was due to considerations for ship survivability issues, as the greatest threats they expect to face would probably be from anti-ship missile attacks from surface, air, or sub-surface platforms, or torpedo attacks from submarines. Should they be acquired for the Gregorio del Pilar-class, the Phalanx would probably be installed on the ship's aft where the US Coast Guard previously installed a similar CIWS. The PN has even included the Phalanx in its training systems, including the new multi-mission tactical simulator, as an integral weapons system of the frigate.

The PN has long announced its desire to arm the frigates with anti-ship missiles (AShM) which would give them a long range striking capability against hostile surface assets. Surprisingly, the PN has not yet made a final decision on this part, even if they made their announcement of plans to acquire such systems as early as 2012. According to MaxDefense sources, the PN's top choise is the US-made Boeing RGM-84 Harpoon missile system, although they are also open to use alternative missile systems offered by other countries, with special mention of those from Israel. 


A Harpoon missile launched from the Australian frigate HMAS Warramunga. A similar system may find its way to the PN's Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates.
Photo taken from Seaforces.org. 


The Gregorio del Pilar-class is not a stranger to the Harpoon missile system as well, with the ships fitted by the USCG with the said system a few decades ago as part of their capability improvement in support of the US Navy during the late part of the Cold War. These were removed when the USCG's mission profile did not require the missiles, which are considered as offensive weapons. According to PN sources, their 2 frigates can easily be re-installed with the system, and will be mounted on the deck space between the 76mm main gun and the bridge area.


The former USCGS Hamilton (WHEC-715), now the BRP Gregorio del Pilar (PF-15), with the two quadruple Harpoon missile launchers on its deck. This is preferably the best position should the PN acquire Harpoons for the ships.

Air Defense systems, using short range man-portable anti-aircraft missile systems, are being planned as well, although it was also learned by MaxDefense that a possible bulk-acquisition for such systems for other current PN warships is being planned. Possible recipients of such missile systems include the lone Cyclone-class inshore patrol vessel BRP Mariano Alvarez (PS-38), the entire Jacinto-class offshore patrol vessels, and the reported upcoming former ROKN Pohang-class corvette. Among those looked at by the PN are the French Mistral from MBDA, the Korean Chiron from LIG Nex1, the American FIM-92 Stinger from Raytheon, and the Russian 9K38 Igla-S (these are among the weapons systems offered by Russia recently). These missiles would be mounted on a manually-operated multiple-missile launch platforms.

Although the frigates were also previously armed with anti-submarine torpedoes, plans to acquire such weapons for the Gregorio del Pilar-class are still unconfirmed as of this writing. The PN already made an indication of interest for such, but this would probably be at the back-burner as far as up-arming programs are concerned. 



Surveillance and Detection Sensors:
The PN is actually also looking at improving the "eyes and ears" of the ships by installing surveillance radar systems that can detect threats from the surface and air. Currently the ships are installed with a commercial-spec'ed  navigational radar system, and are equipped with the Mk.92 Mod.1 fire control systems. Previously, the ships were equipped with the AN/SPS-40 air search radar, which were removed by the USCG before handing-over the ships to the PN. 

Previous information from sources indicated that the frigate may likely receive the same radar systems being planned for the upcoming new frigates. Since the PN has not yet decided on the new frigate's would-be shipbuilder, system integrator and systems suppliers, there is no final decision yet on what the PN may be getting for the Gregorio del Pilar-class. But the chances of getting at least a 3D search radar as indicated in previous MaxDefense blog entries are high.


The PN may opt for a 3D air-surface search radar system, although it may be dependent on the type they intend to install on the upcoming new light frigates. The PN may do a wise decision of making a bulk-acquisition to include additional units for the GdP-class frigates.
Photo taken from Thales Nederland website.


Installation of missile systems on the frigates may also include the installation of new fire control radar systems, which may either complement or replace the currently installed gun-only Mk. 92 Mod.1 system.

Although the PN has highlighted the importance of anti-submarine warfare in its future capability, they may not immediately provide the frigates with an inboard sonar system although there are plans to have them on the entire class. There are no word yet if the PN may opt to go for a hull-mounted system, a towed array sonar, or for both systems to be available on the ships. It is possible though, that the PN may only opt for 1 of the possible systems. It would also probably be dependent on the type on sonar system to be used on the upcoming new light frigates.


A towed-array sonar system like the CAPTAS system (above), may be considered by the PN for upgrading the ASW capabilities of the Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates.
Photo taken from Thales website.



The Philippine Navy has already taken steps in pursuing these plans for the Gregorio del Pilar-class frigates, and it would not take long for them to finally award these systems to respective manufacturers. The PN and DND may opt to directly negotiate for the acquisitions, either through a Government-to-Government (G2G) or Foreign Military Sales (FMS) deal, or a direct commercial sale depending on the source of the systems. 

These upgrades would also render the ships out of action for some months from patrol duties in the West Philippine Sea and other disputed areas. So MaxDefense expects these upgrades to be carefully scheduled and will be done on a one-by-one basis. Should the PN actually get the reported donation of a Pohang-class corvette, it would be expected to take some of the burden of the frigates' missions, and its presence would enable the PN to allow at least one of the frigates to be out of service for a few months.

It would be interesting to note that the upcoming new light frigates being tendered by the Philippine Navy would have a possible strong influence on the choices of weapons and surveillance systems to be acquired for the current frigates. As an early advice for those surprised by the split of the weapons from the new light frigate acquisition program, that was nothing new and was just formality to enable the PN to acquire the system it prefers for the new frigates, while freeing up the burden from the shipbuilders. This would be further discussed on upcoming MaxDefense blog entries regarding updates on the PN Frigate Acquisition Program.

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UPDATES:
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August 23, 2014:
IHS Jane's recently reported and confirmed that the PN is already preparing the weapons and electronics upgrades for the Gregorio del Pilar-class. The report specified that the PN wanted the ships to have at least the systems it had during their service with the USCG, including having the Phalanx CIWS and Harpoon anti-ship missiles.

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202 comments:

  1. Great Developments. I hope they do all these things before Pnoy steps down in 2016, otherwise, we will be back in the drawing board and pipedream stage again esecially if the next President is not "interested" in modernizing the AFP. Right Max? :)

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    1. kaya dapat mag materialize na lahat before pnoy steps down

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    2. Sana hindi na lang pinatangal ng gobyerno natin ang dating mga nakakabit na sa mga Hamilton cutters nang e-handover ng US ang mga ito sa Pilipinas. Yun rin pala ang ipakakabit. tsk! tsk! tsk!

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  2. is the raytheon phalanx the same defense gun system in the alreigh burke class destroyers?

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    1. For ASW is not feasible to do so because of the ship's acoustic signature this will cost a lot. If really we want to have a deterrent platform with the possible pohang class if ever it will be acquired then in my humble opinion is ti have pohang witg deterrent ASW capability and Whecs to have AShM capability. Because we cannot afford to have a multi role frigate.

      In this way we have a platform that the old system can be upgraded with capable deterrent.capability vis-a-vis with new warfare threats on ASW with stealthy and quietness signatures equipped with torpedo of stealthy, long range, faster than the ASW corvette and with advanced electronics counter to counter measures.

      Likewise, with the threats of stealthy surface with long range cruise or anti-ship missiles. Together with stealthy drone with multiple bombs on it. These are only few to mentioned in warfarr threatd to include the cyber and electronic warfarr threats.

      Therefore, such threats you need a very well coordinated C4I platforms with proven warfare designed.

      So let us Filipino from academe, military, defense and engineers/scientists to really have to contribute for the ASW corvette or light frigates technical specifications to really have a capable platform with our limited budget or resources.

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  3. very exited to see this upgrades. sana namn we are able to get the 3rd gdp class. and hoping for torpedoes btw

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  4. tagal na pahinga nung blog mo sir max hehe waiting in vain for your very informtive and nakaka buhay ng dugo blog

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    Replies
    1. Its been only 8 days. My last blog entry was only posted last August 14.

      http://maxdefense.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/pafs-long-range-patrol-aircraft-tech.html

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    2. Sir Max, what are the chances of getting the 3rd Hamilton class? And if ever, whatz the expected date??. Bcoz it seems the govt is not in a hurry in acQuiring those..tnxx

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    3. Not in a hurry because there's no available ship for transfer yet. The earliest we may get a 3rd WHEC is by next year. This is subject to availability.

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  5. RAM is better than manpads.

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    1. ...and RAM is also more expensive than Manpads. The ship has limited space to mount a RAM launcher, although the Phalanx could also give way for such system.

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    2. we're on a tight budget. as much as i would like the RAM system for our ships as well, it's just not possible for now. i can see the Mistral or the Chiron as a decent SHORAD solution for now.

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    3. Or if we get the koreans to build our frigate, we may be able to get the RAMs for a whole lot less if we buy it through them, since they manufacture a licensed RIM-116.

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  6. phalanx will be the most effective ciws than mk38 mod2. it can defend against missile attacks and fast moving missile boats in littoral warfare. maybe the goalkeeper is the best to be installed in our leadship in my opinion

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    1. The Mk38 and the Phalanx are designed for different reasons. The Mk38 Mod2's rate of fire is enough for small fast crafts, but using the high rate of fire of the Phalanx is wasteful. The Phalanx was designed to shoot down incoming anti ship missiles, and the same reason applies as to why the PN may acquire them. The Phalanx is a better choice than the out of production, more expensive, and deck penetrating Goalkeeper system, and its 30mm ammunition is more expensive. The Avenger cannon used in the Goalkeeper is reportedly out of production as well.

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    2. For information the Phalanx main desgned is for close anti-air threats like missile but for DDG destroyer it can also be used fir anti-surface to be used against air and surface swarm tactics asidr from main missile system and primary gun. The doctrines of gun and missile employment it depends on the range and warhead being fired against the ship not to compromise the survivability of the platform.

      The MK38 MOD2 is solely used against small target without armed missile but if such small targets armed with short range missiles the platform will use the primary gun is either 76mm like aboard tge PF15 and PF16 and fir DDG 5 inch gun which is 127mm gun.

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  7. dear sir max , can our PN install russian KASHTAN CIWS for our future frigates?

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    1. "Can"? Yes.
      "Will"? Probably no.

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    2. ph will not buy or bid with rusia becz we are a member of the allied forces thats it. plain and simple

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    3. it most likely weighs a metric fuckton. it probably weighs more than the Mk.75 76mm gun on the GDP-class frigates. that also leave the chink copy of the Goalkeeper (Type 730) out of the list, for obvious reasons.

      not to mention, another addition to an already tight logistics line.

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  8. does our PN oto melaras equipped with vulcano ammos and darts strales system sir max? if not, why arent these sophisticated bullets among the upgrades since our PN ships do have oto melaras as its maib gun

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    1. For JCPV it can be done, by upgrading the system because the 76mm gun is made from italy wherein DART strales ammo can be used by modification of gun system to include of increasing the rounds per minute of fire from 85 to 100. The Dart strales is to use against missiles and small swarm tactics therefore there is a need to have a fire control radar because the ammo is a rf beam guided ammo to have more accurate probability of hitting the target. There is a need to replace its fire control system.

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  9. Wouldn't the upcoming Pohang corvette also require motor upgrades and electronic guidance upgrades for its MM-38s as well, assuming it will be the ROKN Gyeongju PCC-758? In which case, these upgrades would be more costly than buying a brand-new missile, i.e., Exocet MM-40 block 3 or Hae Sung SSK-700M.

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  10. The missile 12 years life.
    The MM-38 missile has more than 22 years (management is important)
    You can fly at launch failure
    Will be used as training
    The missiles are usually retired after this life (Upgrade X)

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  11. Hi Anonymous, as far as the DND concerns the Pohang class corvette ships (hopefully not 1 ship only at least 3 more they have plenty of corvettes soon to be replace with their new FXD project) will be given by the Korean govt to PN are all intact which is mean all its components from radar system, radios, armaments (i hope they give with no modifications or downgrading issues to 76m/40mm guns and other "small armaments"?) all to remain intact on it.

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    1. Although it was reported as intact, its better to wait for the ship to arrive. I have some doubts but I'll reserve it until we confirm the final deal.

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    2. Sir whatz the "final deal" ur talking about? Does mean conditions before its transfer? Likewise, do u hav inside information or idea at least the the govt intends to get the retiring Pohang Class? Tnx

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    3. No, final deal as in awarding of the new frigate contract to shipbuilders, system integrator, and suppliers. There are intentions to acquire more Pohang-class corvettes, and the new frigate acquisition has something to do with it as well.

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  12. As far as the Harpoons being FMS, doesn't this require US congressional approval? How long would this process take and can it be expedited?

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    1. It is required, but being a US Major Non-NATO Ally, this would not be much of a problem. Usually their concern is the balance of power in the region might be affected by this acquisition. We can't even say that there's a balance because everything favors our neighbors since we don't have any anti ship missiles.

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  13. In my opinion... It is good to have a Phalanx, but it is also quite expensive. I would recommend a Simbad or Sadral System which fires Mistral missiles. Dual purpose as a Anti-Aircraft and Anti-Missiles.

    Other new sources are saying that only American weapons and systems are to be installed on the Hamilton's so there is also a little chance that Israel, France or Korea would supply weapons too us...

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    1. The Simbad mount for Mistral are among those being considered by the PN not only for the GdP-class but also for other current and upcoming ships. It is small enough and won't be a problem to install. Since Manpads are not really interconnected with the ship, it won't be a problem to acquire any type, even Russian designs like the Igla-S.

      The PN can use any system as long as it can be integrated to the ship's system, there is space and mountings provided, the ship has enough power supply to make it run, and the US does not object. Israeli products may not be a problem as far as US objection is concerned, and they are actually offering a lot of systems for the Hamiltons.

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    2. Then how come upgrades for this ships took long? I thought there are US restrictions when we purchased these ships?

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Like Max said each WHEC will need to spend months or worse tied up in port in the course of receiving upgrades. The situation in the WPS being what it is, and the WHECs being our only true deepwater-capable ships, the dilemma is obvious. Nothing to do with whatever the conspiracy theorists are saying today.

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  14. Yes We need Phalanx gun to defend the only 2 frigate We have and Missiles to attack and defend itself too.We need DRONES too to guard our sea instead of long range aircraft it could be used for anti insurgency specially for Jihadist and communist.3 submarine at least for the Philippines.If we can have Intercon Missiles w/ NUCLEAR WAR HEADS then maybe China will listen carefully it is the best language they understand...To gain respect or to be respected

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    1. Hi Ela. There are offers made by IAI Elta and Elbit to the DND, PN, amd PAF for maritime surveillance drones to complement the Coast Watch system, the Maritime Patrol Aircraft, and Navy ships in checking the PH's maritime interests and territories. But drones can't totally replace manned aircraft at this time. The AFP is also looking at acquiring larger drones for other purposes, with the Army and Marines leading the way. The Marines have an ongoing drone acquisition project, while a Filipino company, OPCENTEC, is also developing locally made drones for the AFP.

      Nuclear weapons is banned in our constitution. And the PH does not have the technology to develop nuclear weapons, ballistic missile, and a ballistic missile submarine. Acquiring all this as a finished product might be a porblem since the US and other countries will surely block any plan to make the PH a nuclear power.

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    2. Sir Max, why they'll block Ph from having nuclear power?

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    3. This is a sad state that our constitution banned the used of nuclear weapons. If constitutional amendment will take place, our leaders must take hard look the deterrence it may bring to our country.
      This systems (hardware and software) were needed by the AFP yesterday. DND top brass must procure this system as in A.S.A.P. China is very aggressive nowadays, it even intercept P8 Poseidon 135 miles off the coast of Hainan province.
      Being a NON-NATO major ally, Philippines can acquire FMS. The only problem is our capacity to pay and our leaders ability to negotiate. Lobbying is a norm in Washington D.C if only we have a strong lobbying group like other NATO countries or Israel no problem in getting this technologies.
      This is how it works... the State department and Pentagon approve the transfer/s or sale military equipment .. the final seal of approval is in the hands of US Congress. This is time lobbyist will come in, they (lobbyist) will met the congressman or senators and convinced them in advance the approval of the deal. The catch is money, the lobbyist will give them (congressman or senators) money that will go to their campaign fund for the next reelection. As far as I know their is no Filipino lobbying group in D.C otherwise I'm happy to join for monetary contribution.
      Just recently the State department defended their budget allocation for the Philippines in the U.S congress and the budget was 40 million dollars. If we can lobby and spend at around 500 thousand dollars. This 40 million can be ballooned to 200 million. ALL BUCK STOPS AT THE US CONGRESS

      SERGE

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    4. Serge, there is a pro-Philippines lobby group in the US.

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    5. Ferdinand Marcos seems to have foreseen the emergence of a Red China with modern ICBMs. This is probably why he started a rocket program 40 years ago. It's a safe bet he did not start building that Bataan Nuclear Power plant just for peaceful purposes. Let’s just pray a President will emerge who share the same vision. Otherwise we will end up in the same position as Ukraine where ICBM-powered Russia just took Crimea without a fight. It is worth mentioning that Ukraine used to have the third largest ICBM force in the whole world . Ukranian ICBM engineers are among the best in the world. But in a deal sponsored by the US, Ukraine agreed to give up its ICBM’s in exchange for independence from Russia. So what does this have to do with us Pinoys. ? There are probably a number of Ukranian talent and technology that are available for hire at the moment. This is why this is probably one of the best time to start a missile program. . The US will probably block it but if we can “tone it down” to just a little ASM project maybe they will let it fly.
      Let's face it the US will never allow the Philippines to have offensive capability that will threaten its major "Bully" trading partner. I just could not understand how providing us with the fully armed del Pilar frigate would alter the power balance. There are also a number of Chinese lobbies in the US with unlimited cash. and anybody with lots of cash can influence the US Congress.

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    6. Instead of spending billions to develop nukes and turning ourselves into an international pariah we should just invest in the capacity to manufacture antiship and surface-to-air missiles locally.

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    7. We signed a Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons act. And Philippines constitution states that we cannot fight an offensive war but only a defensive war. So we cannot attack other nations with nukes. Are you gonna nuke you own land?

      It is much better to have a Missile shield than a Nuclear weapon.

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    8. I am very much against having nuclear structures in this country....be it for energy or military reasons...our country sits in the pacific ring of fire...i fear that it will just be a disaster waiting to happen...if we have the money to spare for nukes id rather spend it on putting up a capable defensive capability for our territories...

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  15. Sir max, why our navy would not acquire kashtan? Its like a ram with a phalanx or goalkeeper.

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    1. As written on the blog, the Phalanx already has advantages as the ship is ready to accept it without any modifications. It has Phalanx before. Also, the PN can't afford any deck penetration modifications which the Kashtan requires. Even the Goalkeeper will give the PN problems because of the same reasons.

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    2. Sir Max, what is this deck penetrating you're saying?

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    3. In layman's terms: deck penetration means opening a hole on the deck and using spaces below the deck to make way for the weapon's mounts, structural reinforcement, electronics systems, ammunition storage and holding, and other essential equipment to support the weapons system mounted on top.

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    4. In comparison, both the Phalanx and SeaRAM can use the fantail weapon mount without any modification. The existing mount was built for the Phalanx.

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    5. Goalkeeper CIWS production discontinued!
      Korea was the last production.
      Dutch company Thales Korea production line was proposed, but rejected
      Goalkeeper CIWS is quite expensive

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    6. A portion of the gun ie. electonics, ammos etc are below the deck. Phalanx is all above deck including search antenna, ammo, electronics. The latest 1B model even has FLIR and video tracker/targeting, all in one unit above deck.

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    7. So Phalanx is like a plug and play USB? :D

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    8. I prefer the SeaRam system Sir Max because this is better than gun based system like the phalanx. Missile technology keeps evolving and some anti ship missile has supersonic speed to reach its target so i guess the only way to kill a missile of this characteristic is with a missile also. If we adapt the phalanx gun system i feel a redundancy with this platform the other one would be mk 38 remote controlled guns. Same gun based system. If the reason to settle for phalanx is cost but I see this a wise investments and practical choice. The govt will have to pour more money anyway.

      Renbios

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    9. the Mk.38 Mod 2 is not in the same class as the Phalanx CIWS. what made you think that? slower fire rate, which would make it totally useless against AShMs, but still useful against small fast attack craft.

      the Phalanx is for fast-maneuvering AShMs and aircraft, blisteringly fast RoF but is overkill and wasteful against small fast attack craft because of the expense of the saboted tungsten AP rounds it uses.


      both gun based, but each have their own niches.

      plus, the SeaRAM is expensive. like i said in one of my comments regarding the RAM system, we're on a tight budget. RAM is quite an attractive option but we just don't have the funds yet.

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    10. did i say that mk 38 is usefull againts anti ship missile? i know that phalanx and mk 38 are not in the same league but phalanx is the low end model while the searam is the high end model of the raytheon company's ciws. my point is why choose the low end product when the trend nowadays when it comes to ciws is missile based. like i said missile technology evolves but guns do not. that's why i said in my OPINION even though its expensive better get the best platform. masama bang mangarap? sorry i dont believe in the reason of not enough budget. only dirty politicians will say that.

      renbios

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    11. I much prefer a missile based CIWS since effective range of a missile based CIWS like the mistral is 6 km. While a gun based CIWS like the Phalanx has a range of 3600 meters and effective kill range would be 500 m so if a missile is shot down that range and explode, there is a chance that ships sensors and other systems will be damage due to shrapnel's.

      That is why Kashtan CIWS and the SeaRam which uses Phalanx and RIM 116...

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    12. hi allen libranda your correct. the gun based phalanx has disadvantages in combat. just imagine a flotilla of ships firing all its gun based phalanx and somehow hit the missile and its sharpnels exploded to one of the ships structures and sensors. unlike a missile based ciws the explosion of the antiship missile being hit is far away from the ships position.

      renbios

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    13. Yeah, yeah If the missiles fail, the guns can prevail. Back me up buddy!

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    14. i stated my reason why i prefer a missile based platform. its up to the govt what platform they will choose both in operational and financial aspect.

      renbios

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    15. Kababayan what is the layered of defense base on the doctrines? Always remember when ship is designed for specific purpose is base on policy, doctrines, and mission of the ship to mention our tight budget. Let us analyze if we put this armaments is really a solution to present warfare threats for the survivability of the ship specifically on the sensors of the ship. Guns and missiles is not reliable when your sensors is not capable for offensive postures such talking points it must always go hand in hand with combat systems and management of he ship systems.

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  16. Replies
    1. too impractical. might as well get a brand new VLS-equipped frigate.

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    2. Using the Mark 41 VLS, I totally agree with you, Impractical! But with Mark 48 Mod 1 VLS firing the RIM-162 ESSM, possible just like the Dutch Karel Doorman class FF. It is posible to strap a couple of Mark 48 VLS at the sides of the the main superstructure abaft the bridge.

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  17. its a pity that our PF15 only has oto melara as its weapon while joining kakadu naval exercises unlike other navies have missile launchers. We are the ugly duckling among the contingents. hope this will be a good start for our PN and hoping these would continue towards future administrations. MABUHAY PNOY, MABUHAY our AFP. morale support lng muna aking maitulong FOR NOW

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    1. Look at the good side: we're able to send a ship to Australia. And it will be for the good of the crew, who will experience a lot of hands on training on different naval scenarios. It also shows the goodwill of the Philippines to be in regional events as a major participant.

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    2. Kababayan as we start to train we need to train to basic which is the primary and once the doctrines is in place than is time to have a missile because to have a missile system it would a game changing in diplomatic, politic, economic and military.

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  18. Its nice to know some goodnews after all the delays in some of the major projects. Cant wait to see the gdp bearing all those weapons. Heads up PN!

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  19. In the USCG the WHECs had the CIWS in the fantail. Wouldn't that interfere with installing towed-array sonar, which needs to be trailed from the stern of the vessel? I think upgrading the 76mm to STRALES configuration and improving softkill defenses makes more sense here.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good question. Yes, the Phalanx mounted on the original fantail position could pose an obstruction to a towed array sonar. That's why the PN is still looking at a hull mounted option, although sonars in general are not in the PN's initial plans for the frigates.

      Delete
    2. The Strales upgrade from Oto Melara is actually a very good option. But it also means replacing the entire 76mm Compact gun with a new Super Rapid with Strales.

      Delete
    3. Sir max eto b e plano palng or ongoing n? If these are all plans..will it materializethis year? If not what is the timetable?

      Delete
    4. Of all these planned upgrades, only the Mk.38 Mod.2 for the PF-15 will probably materialize this year. As for the rest, we might have some of them next year if the PN pushes through on some items this year.

      Delete
    5. Max, according to Jane's the DART round for Strales is compatible with both the Compact and Super Rapid mounts: http://www.ihs.com/events/exhibitions/dsei-2013/news/day-2/DART-goes-live.aspx

      While a set of Rheinmetall MASS decoy launchers don't sound that expensive: http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/public_relations/news/archive_2012/aktuellesdetailansicht_4_832.php

      Delete
    6. hold on. the PN ordered two Mk.38 Mod 2 systems right? both of those will go to the PF-15? i was thinking both the PF-15 and the PF-16 would get at least one of each.

      Delete
    7. Thanks for that. It will also depend if the PN will continue to use the old Compact rather than replace it with a Super Rapid to maximize the effectivity of the Strales and DART. As for the MASS decoy, the frigates are equipped with the older SRBOC decoys, although I have some doubts of the effectivity of old SRBOC against new generation of anti ship missiles from China.

      Delete
    8. Each frigate will get 2 Mk.38 Mod.0. Originally they wanted 1 each, to be installed on the fantail where the Phalanx used to sit. They made a mistake and now deicided to mount them on where the USCG's Mk38 Mod0 used to be.

      Delete
    9. Always remember when gun is in place there is what we call non pointing zone when it will not automatically fire. For phalanx there would not be a proble because is anti air but the problem here once you put a towed array sonar the ship will have to consider the effect of stability, agility and the ASW quiteness of the ship has to be.considered in relation to towed array sonar being installed. So the feasibility, reliability and acceptability of putting ASW aboard PF15 and PF15 must have to consider. We have upcoming two light frigate or corvette than is better to equipped with ASW capability with defense capability for SAM (short range) and AShM if the budget is enough fir PhP18B

      Delete
  20. I would say, keep the original weapons system as is like the Phalanx and complement it with Simbad or Igla for longer ranges. Nothing beats the Phalanx for last ditch anti-missile defense system. You'll have several layers of air defense without tweaking and spending too much to an old warship. Coupled with the harpoons, new 3-d radar, FCS, towed array, and passive decoys, you've got an effective warship.

    ReplyDelete
  21. good to hear that sir max. Is the FCS of GDP is up-gradable to Oliver Hazard Perry FCS? Is practical to up-grade or buy a new one with capability of tracks while scan?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I believe the Mk92 can be upgraded, although I am not sure if it is better to just replace it with a new one that can be used for missile systems aside from the 76mm gun.

      Delete
    2. Sir Max, kindly explain pls why the US wud block the plan if we opt to be a nuclear powered AFP, with ICBM & all, assuming we are able to amend the Constitution?

      Delete
    3. The MK92 is upgradeable but the question is this system in the long run will be sustained and if the system still capable and reliable to present warfare threats. Because the otger country is using MK92 MOD6 or higher model because of the reliability issue.

      Delete
  22. Sir Max, what's your estimate cost of all the upgrades we buy the latest of Phalanx and Harpoon and Radars?

    ReplyDelete
  23. DND AND AFP is un reliable source with regards to modernization.. look what happen to the frigates aquisition? Its already last week of August but seems not clear of this report that they say July will be the final judgement of whom s the winner of the bidding. how could we make our defense in spratly if this Armed Forces is always urong sulong with the decision. Stand firm with the decision.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As I said in the last part of the blog entry, there's nothing wrong with the decision to separate the acquisition of weapons from the frigate project. There will be slight delays as the bidders are refining their offers without some of the specified weapons. This is actually a good news which other people are not aware of.

      Delete
    2. Then why the AFP-DND planned this way ahead before the start of the procurement process if the intention was indeed to separate after all??

      Delete
  24. I thought it was only the USCG Mellon that was installed with the Harpoon missile.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All were installed with the Harpoon. Only Mellon test fired it.

      Delete
  25. Harpoon is a hardware limitation (Upgrading X)
    Whether the operating block III was canceled was 40 years
    Difficult more than a pop-up start
    Western countries, the UK, Spain, Norway, Japan, Korea, the Navy no longer Harpoon does not order
    When you order the Philippine Navy will be the last buyer.
    And could be End of Life

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are correct, Young Oh, even UK is about to take them out of service by 2018. That's why Harpoon is just the main option, but is not the only option. Israel, Korea, France and Norway are all offering their missile systems to the PN, although Israel seems to have an edge.

      Delete
    2. wut?! Harpoon is going to phase-out? then it's better to look other supplier.

      Delete
    3. Compared to the latest anti-ship missile is under Performance
      3D supersonic anti-ship missiles to 3Ddodge Maneuvering
      The Harpoon is not improved.
      Excellent performance in other countries naval anti-ship missile


      http://www.janes.com/article/41351/uk-casts-doubt-on-harpoon-future-beyond-2018

      Delete
    4. huh. those MM40 Exocets or the swedish RBS-15s are starting to look like attractive options as well, if that was the case.

      Delete
    5. One of the candidates to replace Harpoon, the LRASM from Lockheed Martin:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHlW1h_0XQ

      Delete
  26. Philippine government must concentrate building the military capability than meaningless dialog against China. If Taiwan and South Korea from Zero can do it to a supper military power, why the Philippine can not. All the raw materials to build a strong country is used only for export and the country produced the best engineers and Technicians are only to be qualified to work abroad, and the budget for all NGO´S is only stolen by miss guided corrupt politicians.

    ReplyDelete
  27. What about electronic countermeasures and missile decoys? Are we investing in these as well or relying mostly on the CIWS?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The PN has already invested on ESM for the ships, and there are already discussions on soft kill systems, although nothing specific yet, thus it was not discussed in the blog entry. So far the main thrusts are on MGS, anti ship missiles, CIWS, FCS, and surveillance systems.

      Delete
    2. Ok thanks for the update. Great work with the blog...look forward to every new entry.

      Delete
  28. Finally DND/PN people realizes the importance of CIWS to iprotect the ship from missile, but the raytheon phalanx CIWS is rather quite expensive hopefully they will be able to find funds for it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The are no specifics yet, but the US government might be assisting in some way or another for the PN to acquire them.

      Delete
  29. Hi Max,
    If ever I hope DND and PN would push and consider the Elbit Missile defense system rather than expensive US made. This will free us the dependency of our government in procuring too much in US military hardware's and if I may add why we are relying too much with the US govt assistance when most of the request just been denied and needing approval with them is it just because of the mutual defense pact for their own gain? I'll say maybe we should gain more European or with Israel and South Korean system rather than US besides EU are having economic recessions lately and we can get that opportunity to start making more bilateral economic and military missions...

    ReplyDelete
  30. they have to upgrade our arsenal as soon as possible
    time is running out

    ReplyDelete
  31. Sir Max.. since you mention about Russian made Igla-S MANPADS... in your own point of view. what would be the chances of acquiring Russian made arms/ weapons? We know that the US imposed economic sanctions to Russia due to Ukrain/ Creamea crisis. will the US blocks the Russians offer to us? Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, South Korea has Russian Kamovs, Ilyusin and they also have the Igla MANPADS. US has bases in SOKOR. I don't know why the Philippines does not consider Russian weapons? Because we are Allies with the US?

      Singapore has Igla's too and they mounted it on top of US M113's. Isn't that great? Malaysia & Indonesia has SU's and Mig's but they also have F-16 and F-18's.

      May the DND be a country that can consider other countries which are expressing their desire to help us strengthen our AFP.

      Delete
    2. hi there. the answer is ph will most probably NOT buy russian made weapons. not becuase of us sanctions but mostly all our equipment are western made soldiers have familiarty. and we are under the allied forces. are you going to buy a weapon from your allys enemy?

      Delete
    3. Why South Korea has Russian weapons? South Korea is also an ally of the US. Familiarity? Filipino Soldiers are very versatile.

      Delete
    4. I think that is not a problem.. look what the Indonesian do? they have a mix of military equipment's. and Russian equipment's are much cheaper than the westerns.. we have to accept the reality that we lacks budget in terms of arms procurement.

      Delete
    5. Singapore and Korea have high reagrds on the Igla's performance. Korea has Russian tanks and armored vehicles as payment for Korean loans for Russia. They are using them for dissimilar training.

      Delete
    6. Why not? Our so called ally sells us phased out equipment removing all the high tech weaponry.

      Delete
  32. sir Max, the USCG Hamilton were never equipped with Harpoons, only USCG Mellon were equipped as stated in the article in the link, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/whec-378.htm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. See the photo of USCGS Hamilton in the blog entry and tell me what are those things between the 76mm gun and the bridge?

      USCG and PN officers confirmed with me before: PF-15 and PF-16 are all wired and ready for Harpoons.

      Delete
    2. Here's WHEC-722 Morgenthau with Harpoon missiles and WHEC-720 Sherman with what look like missile racks but no launch tubes. The other three WHECs in this old photo don't seem to have received the FRAM upgrades at the time it was taken since Phalanx is missing.

      http://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/Cutter_5HECs_Color.jpg

      Delete
  33. Hi Max, You got another good news for the GdP!
    I hope all these modernization for GdP class proceeds. It will be a pity to let these ships just be as I once read "over-sized gunboats". We already have the ship, now lets make it a credible weapons platform. Give it a new lease of life. I hope that the DND/AFP/PN can do the same to the older members of the fleet. Upgrade the detection and surveillance system so they can act as OPVs to patrol the WPS in GdP's absence.

    ReplyDelete
  34. These are good news although there was a delay but it's forthcoming . When the PN together with the DND decided to seperate the weapons and sensors acquisitions with the ships hull it actually favored with other requirements they need especially with the up arming of the GDP , Jacinto Class and the M. Alvarez class. The GDP class should start sooner since this is the only frontline ship that the PN has with only 2 at the present. Max is right re: the type of weapons and sensors to complement these ships . These are existing and proven platforms and since it doesn't require extensive changes that would mean less time and early deployment. Israel and S.Korea would be the best choice in sourcing out these requirements since they currently employ these arsenals. With the news regarding the Pohang class corvette to be added on the PN list . It would be on the PN advantage if they could begin to plan out the requirements for any upgrades and additional systems for the Pohang class before they officially deliver to the PN. Hopefully they could source out additional Hamilton class and Pohang class as additional stop gap until they fully acquire their "2020 defence force mix" .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am awaiting the awarding of the frigate closely, because it will be a decisive point for the PN's future. A lot of current and future programs are too closly related to this frigate acquisition. Watch the Koreans, Israelis, and the Americans closely.

      Delete
  35. Sir Max is PF-11 is still capable of accepting Phalanx and Harpoon?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No point arming them with these weapons when they are already slotted for decommissioning as newer assets arrive.

      Delete
  36. Max. any news about the the oil tankers? when will it be ready for commissioning?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They'll be ready soon. We'll hear news from the navy of this ships by next month.

      Delete
    2. but Sir Max, how many ships we need to decommission it?

      Delete
  37. Sir max bkt wlang news tungkol sa acquisition ng surface to air missille at ng anti air craft gun

    ReplyDelete
  38. Sir max wla bang plano na bumili ng anti craft gun or altellry ang army

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AA Guns, nothing on them. Aa Missiles, yes.

      Delete
  39. Sir max mag acquire ba ang phil ng rocket interseptor

    ReplyDelete
  40. I hope that aside from the phalanx ciws, the dnd/PN goes for israeli manufactured missiles, command and control systems for the GDP class.

    Since the Israelis have a good track record of providing/selling your monies worth and there is not much politics involved, just business.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Israelis did offer a lot of their wares not just for the GdP-class, but also for all other current and upcoming new ships. Radars, weapon stations, ship launched drones, ECM, missiles - you name it they (almost) have it all.

      Delete
    2. Are they offering ToT? Azerbaijan bought a whole damn shipyard from the Israelis. http://www.janes.com/article/42534/azeri-coastguard-revamps-fleet-with-israeli-help, http://en.president.az/articles/12412/images

      Delete
  41. Sir max may mga weapon va ang phil army na secret or tinatago?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If there are, then there are reasons why it should be kept that way.

      Delete
  42. With the PN on its way to fast track the modernization process . The PCG has been sidetrack or probably mulling on its plan to beef up its contingents. Are there any reliable reports regarding the "10 brand new " 40+ meters patrol boats their suppose to received via a soft loan granted by the Japanese government . The PCG as one of its primary role is to patrol and guard the country's EEZ but because of lack of these assets it becomes the PN duties .
    Max , if you could humor me on this idea of mine. Given , that the PN can acquire additional WHEC and Pohang corvettes . Maybe if the current conditions of these ships namely " Miguel Malvar class and Rizal class " can be modified to fit as a coast guard PB . They could be modify by eliminating several gun emplacements retaining the "40s" on the bow and reconfiguring the mid and aft portion of the ships to lessen the weight and to accommodate a helicopter deck . I understand that these ships are due for retirement but if it is feasible it could be a good patrol /gunboat to guard and patrol our EEZ . Even of its old design these ships have steel hulls and top structures that at any event of a confrontation on close range it could sustain perhaps gain the upper hand because of these attributes. These could be a good project for the local ship builders . With the current inventory of 6 Malvar class and 2 Rizal class , they could at least come out with 4 modified Malvar class and 1 Rizal class to augment the PCG assets. Just an after thought for the PCG dilemma . Thanks , Max.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. better still is if the PN goes for more SoKor PKMs, PN already has a lot of experience with these craft so familiarity is not a problem. There are at least 50 of these to be retired so our govt must go for dozens not just for the PN but for the PCG and BFAR as well.

      Delete
  43. Please make another update, Max. Jane's posted the interview in its entirety. :)

    http://www.janes.com/article/42243/philippine-navy-mulling-best-way-to-upgrade-del-pilar-frigates

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually most of the article's content was already discussed in the blog entry.

      Another good question that should have been asked in that interview was: if the frigates go for these upgrades and be off for several months, who will replace them to guard the contested territories? There are already answers within the PN but they need to finalize everything first, including the new frigate deal, before a conclusion can be reached.

      Delete
    2. this news about upgrading the del pilar class is i think 2 years old already. from time to time they regularly issued press statement both to foreign and local news. but until now they haven't install the necessary weapons system even the mk 38 bushmaster is still pending how much more the planned anti ship missile. they still cant decide which brand (weapons and combat system) to use until now. is it really that hard to decide? maybe the next press release would be to stop the missile installation because the ship is old and better to use the funds in acquiring a third frigate. after all the del pilar ships proved its worth in patrolling our ezz because of its endurance. my opinion only

      renbios

      Delete
  44. I notice that when topic is about the gdp class or the soon to aquired frigs a lot of comments are coming in . It only shows that filipinos are now aware of the status of our navy and the needs to have an effctive surface combatant. We are closely mpnitoring the developments of the bidding process.

    Sir max do you think that by september there will be a winner? What is the most probable date? Are they going topush through with the plan of a follow up frig? Any idea of the specs?

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hi Max.. any information from the PN in uparming the BRP Mariano Alvarez and the entire Jacinto-class offshore patrol vessels of AShM? aside from those Air defense systems that you mention.. I read before that the Jacinto class have problems of it's weight and balance. is it true? will it be hopeless for any upgrades such as AShM or will it remain as GUNBOAT?

    HiBlood

    ReplyDelete
  46. Sir max 1 squadron of fa/50 is not enough...to defend philipines island...my plan va tau n mag acquire ng jas gripen at. MBT

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. stage 1 plng naman kum baga na umipisa ka plng kaya entry level muna. hnd naman sila kaagad agad bbili ng sobrng advance na tech kng hnd nman nila alam kng pano gmitin.

      Delete
    2. and unfortunately, stage 2 is in the hands of the next president in 2017, so if Binay will be elected, you can kiss that idea goodbye

      Delete
    3. I think my pag asa p tau makapantay s thailand or singapore
      at s plagay if trillanes or bong2x marcos is the next press susuporta yan sa modernization...

      Delete
  47. Sir max ilan frigate va ang nid ng navy para mkpalag s china at s umaatake n patalikod n malaysia

    ReplyDelete
  48. link below show how past politician and leaders of our country so arrogant to say something regarding the west philippine issue. I dont like this people such as Ramos, Alunan and other..no contribution in the AFP modernization during their time in the Government. So weird and shameful !

    http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Opinion&title=Mark-and-defend-our-territory-before-it%E2%80%99s-too-late&id=93383

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YOU GOT IT RIGHT...RAMOS DID NOT DO ANYTHING AFTER THE CHINESE OCCUPIED MISCHEEF REEF.. PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION SAW THIS COMING BUT LET THEIR GREED BE THE FIRST RATHER THAN MODERNIZING AFP.
      SERGE

      Delete
    2. you are right bro. I dont like this personality the like of Ramos. Go go go president Pnoy..were here always to support your initiative to modernize our AFP and the country's economy. Lem1

      Delete
    3. If I remember right it was during the reign of Gloria that the Chinese occupied the Mischief Reef saying they were just fishermen shelters and she did nothing about it. Not even a diplomatic protest.

      Delete
  49. Now we're gonna spend to protect the world's biggest gunboat, including expensive ASW helicopters, just for the enjoyment of parading around with the US Navy in trainings that we dont need. What we need are many corvettes the likes of Pohang, Minerva, Descubierta, Grisha class etc. Not a trio of the biggest gunboats that just 3 Silkworms will neutralize.

    These gunboats will be better off with three Russian AK-630's than a single Phalanx CIWS; Igla MANPAD's and Quad 50cal MG's to protect itself from aerial threats. For torpedo defense these will need USV's and ASW grenades. And for offense, 4 Harpoons that are supposedly they are already wired for.

    The Humabon, the Auks and the PCE's should also be uparmed for self protection and a little offense. Igla MANPAD's and Quad 50cal MG's to protect from aerial threats. For torpedo defense ASW grenades. For offense, improve the accuracy and firing rates of their 3 inch cannons.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wow sir your stupidity is so overwhelming

      Delete
    2. The WW2 ships are already being scheduled for decommissioning once newer ships arrive to replace them. No point of upgrading them further. I think I discussed the advantages of having new ships than just relying on old ships several times in MaxDefense comments section.

      Delete
    3. There is no point in calling commenters here "stupid". The commenter has a point. It was mentioned somewhere that 20 Harpoons would cost $150 million dollars. To place such AShM system on the old $40M GDP class hull is highly questionable. Heck $150 million could get you a brand new frigate !!! The problem with these old hulls is that their radar cross section is as big as the Philippine Arena - hence they are easy targets for modern supersonic AShM's.. And the Harpoons are way too expensive - it is time to consider building our own missiles. Missiles are the ammos of modern naval warfare. You can not go ordering Harpoons on Internet catalogs everytime you run out.

      Delete
    4. Building our own missile requires a lot of technological advances in electronics and rocketry, which the PH currently don't have. If you wait for a locally made missile to be available, then it's like waiting for almost a generation. Even if the GdP-class are old, they are the only ships we have NOW. Waiting further for new ships to arrive, or money to be allocated will stagnate the navy.

      Also, it won't cost $150 million to arm the 2 existing frigates with Harpoon, according to sources from DND and PN.

      Delete
    5. After the US stopped the rocket program of Marcos, I know there are ex-Soviet missile designs and ex-Soviet design bureaus willing to sell missile designs and production systems. But the DND/AFP are very busy suckling from Western vendors. It's our nation's survival and we better improve our defenses fast, commissions also included.

      Delete
  50. hi max, dont you think the mounting on the fantail is too low especially for the phalanx as the ciws (maybe less of an issue if a searam or other missile ciws) and thus the field of fire is more limited, esp. with the helideck at the back (fore) of it? do you think if there is a possibly better siting for it on the GDP class?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The evasive action of the ship will be according to where its soft and hard kill options are located. The ship must not face the incoming missile head-on, so the bridge officers must know how to position their ship when threatened.

      Delete
  51. sir max. and other filipinos in this blog this might interst you guys

    it seems that a experienced filipino shipbuilding company are interested in making our own maritime vessels and such. sana suportahan ng govt ntn
    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/376779/economy/companies/shipbuilder-herma-group-wants-to-build-vessels-for-phl-military

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There was previously a MaxDefense reader who was connected to a local ship / yacht builder. They were actually interested in building navy and coast guard ships as a shift from their current market. I thought before it was Herma but it wasn't.

      Herma has enough experience to build civilian vessels, but they may need to be injected with naval shipbuilding technology from large foreign companies. A good example is Indonesia's PT PAL. When TNI-AL (Indonesian Navy) bought the Makassar-class LPD from Daesun Shipbuilding of Korea, part of the contract is to have some of the ships built in PT PAL's facilities in Indonesia. Just look at how fast the company learned, now they were able to export a derivative to the Philippine Navy for its SSV requirement.

      Delete
    2. PT PAL was previously a smaller civilian shipbuilder, even smaller than Herma. Now they are embarking on building frigates and submarines, with the same technology transfer agreements with Dutch shipbuilder Damen Schelde (Sigma PKR light frigate) and Korean shipbuilder Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (for the Chang Bogo-class submarine).

      Delete
    3. hope the govt supports this. its a big step in terms of experince not only for herma but PN also

      Delete
    4. a good start might be in building Opv's for PN and PCG and maybe new tankers for PN?

      Delete
    5. PT PAL's success is a direct result of forward-looking government policies. The PN should initiate a project like Indonesia's KCR and SoKor's FFX involving dozens of orders over a period of years and local construction thru ToT as a quid pro quo for foreign participation.

      Delete
    6. This would be fantastic.

      And it would be fairly easy to do.

      Just take the Fassmer OPV80 and have Herma build it in the Philippines, just like Colombia and Chile are doing.

      You could get four up-armed, helicopter-carrying, locally-built, reliable long endurance OPV's for about 50 million to 60 million dollars a pop, ie. the price of just 1 light frigate, which would be a huge boost for situational awareness and patrol capabilities of the PN.

      I've been advocating for this since I started posting here - it should already be happening now, tbh, as it is a no-brainer.

      Laurence

      Delete
    7. Laurence, the PN has not yet announced the planned acquisition of Offshore Patrol Vessels. But there were previous indications that it was looking for a design that can be up-armed later on. Previous studies were looking at 80 meter length, but they might revise it later on to a larger design probably between 90-100 meters.

      Delete
    8. Interoperability with Philippine Navy OPVs is mentioned in the TS checklist for the ASW helicopter bidding. Fassmer has a missile-armed derivative of the best-selling OPV80. http://www.fassmer.de/shipbuilding/naval-vessels/offshore-patrol-vessels/80-m-offshore-patrol-vessel-naval-opv/

      Delete
    9. We need to abolish the Sin-ators and the deputa-dos in congress and use the funds to modernize and professionalize the AFP. All these politicos do are empty talk and steal most of our tax money and government revenues.

      Delete
    10. The question why is it the SSV has not negotiated to built in country since we have a facility in Cebu wherein they could do the work for SSV. This company is also building bulk carrier. I think the decision makers have think on transfer of technology concept so that our own economy will benefits from it. Why the Indonesian government has done such concept with Korean Government transfer of technology. And now, Philippine Governement cannot do it? Why?Why?Why?

      Delete
  52. It's about time. Start with patrol boats, then corvettes, then frigates, then destroyers...

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/376779/economy/companies/shipbuilder-herma-group-wants-to-build-vessels-for-phl-military?ref=secitem

    ReplyDelete
  53. http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/376779/economy/companies/shipbuilder-herma-group-wants-to-build-vessels-for-phl-military

    ReplyDelete
  54. Can we possibly arm our Jacinto/Peacock class corvettes with anti-ship missiles as well? Not full size ones like the Harpoons-- maybe like the navalized Hellfires the US plans to put on the Littoral Combat Ship or the modified Sea Skuas used on the Kuwaiti Navy corvettes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are plans, but the priority right now are the GdP-class frigates. Both the MPACs and Cyclone-class are planned to have small missiles although there are plans to install MANPADS on the Jacinto-class.

      Delete
  55. This capability was present 15 years ago, the problem was the focus of the government. Building ships is not a rocket science though this may take close coordination between Shipbuilder and AFP but very possible. Soldiers can only win the battle but Politicians can win the war!!!!
    serge

    ReplyDelete
  56. Sir max nAtatakot va s malaysia c pnoy kya nito tinatapon ung claim ntin sa sabah??nhi va alm ni press na malaysia ang provide sa milf ng pera sandata at training??

    ReplyDelete
  57. https://ph.news.yahoo.com/blogs/the-inbox/magdalo-rep-scores-neglect-ph-occupied-territories-spratlys-160904605.html

    Please read...

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  58. Like England and Japan, the Philippines are an island country surrounded by water. Island countries need strong SEA POWER in order to remain free. The last two invasions of the PHILIPPINES, in 1941, and in 1898, came over the water. Military thinking in the Philippines has been "LAND" oriented due to the Philippine Military Academy at Baguio. The PHILIPPINES needs a NAVAL ACADEMY like the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland so that.the proper SEA POWER mind set and values can be inculcated in Philippine defense thinking and doctrine. The first priority of the PHILIPPINE DND/DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENSE should be to learn how to sink enemy ships.

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    1. Agreed. The ideal force mix should emphasize navy and air force over army. The idea is to hit the invader before he can come ashore and do some real damage. Our military spending needs to be focused on maritime patrol aircraft datalinked to frigates and destroyers, with supersonic fighter jets available when necessary. Some diesel electric submarines would be nice too.

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    2. Absolutely I agree.....but we need strong air cover which also means strong air force....

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    3. The current thinking of the DND and AFP general staff is too COIN-centric.

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    4. philippine navy has a school. like the armys pma....its called pmma. philippine merchant marine academy. hope this info help.

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    5. Radio Wasteland, the PMMA is not a PN school. It is a separate institution which is not under the DND. The PMA is the premier institution of the AFP for officers, and is not solely for the Army.

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    6. ooops sorry thought they were under DND my bad

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    7. With all due respect sir - if you can click a mouse - that's all you need to do to sink a ship. Your radar screen tells you the coordinates of the detected enemy ship - that data is fed into your AsHM.s guidance system - click the .LAUNCH icon and watch for smoke and mayhem over the horizon. What the AFP needs is a school for hi-tek geeks. We need hi-tek phd.s who will lead radar, missile and satellite programs - not macho officers who will just steal and run. It would only cost a few million to send the best engineers overseas to learn some hi-tek military stuff.

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    8. CHED under Licuanan should also spearhead at palawakin ang mga courses na itinuturo sa PMA at UP. Dagdagan ang mga courses sa lahat ng technical & engineering field na related sa pagma-manufacture ng military weapon systems tulad ng communication satellites, missiles, combat aircraft, naval vessels, armored fighting vehicles at main battle tanks. Kailangan dito ay may tie-up ang CHED sa PMA, UP, AFP, TESDA at private industry (like shipbuilding industry). Wala nang mga pork barrel funds ang mga Congressmen at Senators kaya malalaanan ni Sec. Abad ng additional supplemental 2015 budget itong proposed special project ng CHED. Siguradong ia-approved kaagad yan ni Pnoy dahil sa modernization na ginagawa niya sa AFP. Kailangang-kailangan at nagre-recruit na ang AFP ng maraming sailor/soldier recruits, pilots/ship captains, aeronautical & marine engineers, aircraft mechanics/technicians, ship welders, ECEs/MEs/EEs/CEs/CHEs, electricians/machinists, etc. na magme-maintain ng mga military assets ng AFP. Sa ngayon ay limited lang ang mga courses na offered ng PMA at UP. Kailangan ay ma-expand ang course offerings nila sa specialized field like astronautics, aerospace eng’g, satellite communications eng’g, missile eng’g., robotics, oceanography, military science, laser technology, space science, radar technology, etc. Malapit nang magka gera ang China at Pilipinas dahil sa Spratly Island dispute at puwedeng mangyari ito anytime soon dahil dahan-dahang sinasakop na ng China ang teritoryo ng Pilipinas sa Spratly at kailangan ng AFP ng maraming mga skilled technicians at engineers at the soonest time possible..

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    9. Let's review our "credible defense" aside from a naval force we should study also having a shore based anti ship and anti air defense covering our EEZ and airspace.

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  59. let us support this initiative...for economy, jobs, EEZ defense for Philippines and Filipinos.

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/376779/economy/companies/shipbuilder-herma-group-wants-to-build-vessels-for-phl-military

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  60. I read news report last may that PN was looking for a 3rd cutter. If that will push through, we may hear announcement soon ( I mean maybe last quarter of the 2014). USCG will commission a new NSC CUTTER HAMILTON (NATIONAL SECURITY CUTTER) this coming Dec. 6 2014. The delivery of this new cutter will be September 6, 2014.
    Hopefully, PN can get the cutter that will be replaced. Two (2) new USCG will schedule for deliveries in 2015 and 2016 respectively.. NSC James and NSC Munro.
    serge
    http://www.navytimes.com/article/20140816/NEWS03/308160049/Coast-Guard-cutter-program-hits-its-stride

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  61. Sir Max any news on the patrol boats coming from japan?

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  62. Do we even have a dedicated Naval Academy for Naval architecture and Design Engineering were we can pickup think tanks for Building our own naval ships and weapons?

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  63. sir max kailan po mag kakaroon ng brandnew at modernize na frigates ang pn natin? thank you.

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    1. i suggest you do some reading around this site. plenty of articles regarding that matter.

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  64. Anxious about the Frigate program, hope some good news comes out in the next few days

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  65. this one will be a good buy by the PN and PCG..
    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/navy-warship-future-120044236.html
    actually we can build our own but not this advanced but can have some of the features like gatling guns, and missiles, this is already similar to the locally build MPACs all we have to do is make the MPACS faster and a little bigger with gatling guns and be able to equipped with missiles.

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  66. So sir max what happened for the two brand new Frigates supposedly for to be awarded to the winning bidder? I would say almost 6 months delay and yet no news from DND. Do you have any Idea Sir? It's already approaching November and I think delivery if things are in order will fall on 2017 or 2018. I wonder what is behind the first projected schedule????

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    1. The project is moving, slowly but surely. It may get delayed further, though.

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  67. Sir Max, do you favor the SMART S Radar?

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    1. The SMART-S Mk.2 is a decent 3D radar system. I have no objections to it.

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  68. If our gov't is tight of funds, then we should acquire more of the hamilton cutters being retired by the US coast guard. We can easily refurbish them with modern weaponry. I say we need 4 more of these in addition to the new frigates being acquired by DND

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  69. Two (2) Hamilton will be retired next year as schedule in US coast guard and will be replace with new security cutter. Is the Philippine government already made a request with the US government to get 1 or 2 cutters for PN??? also, can the Phil government accelerate the upgrade of weapons and sensors for PF15 and 16 Sir max??

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  70. Ang sarap paguumpugin ang mga ulo ng ating navy officials. Its been over a year and yet debating on what arsernal they intend to equip with these two ship. Gaya gaya puto maya. Because these bunch of geniuses are prefering to install previous equipment while still in USCG service instead of putting up the best weapon that will fit the ship and adaptable to the skills of the sailors. This will also be the training platform of remaining navy personnel to undergo on this new type of equipment

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